Say what?
 

Ok...here's what happened. To start off with..BV ..3 man crew. I'm not knocking my fellow refs...BUT not as experienced (as you will see) as I would like for a hotly contested BV game. I will not bore you with every call and positioning issue. Here's the major one that put me over the top. Team B down 1 point. Gets rebound underneath team As basket. Immediately calls timeout with 2.5 seconds on clock 4 th Q. I was lead at the time. I relay info to the table and go back to baseline to administer the ball.(should have gotten together and talked about situation...but sadly we did not) Just getting ready to blow whistle to start inbounds. The trail blows his whistle..he's talking to Bs coach. Trail comes running up to me says "why are we not in bounding at half court" I was like what the hell are you talking about. This is not the NBA. He thought about it for a second, and said yeah your right. REALLY!! Went backed to his position. So, I in bounds the ball on baseline, they have a turnover. Time elapses. Game over right! Wrong! As I'm running off court. I see my other partner talking to Bs coach...she's screaming and yelling. He whistles me over! He's the ref, not me by the way. I go over, the coach says she asked the the trail where the ball was going to be inbounded , he said half court. So she set up a half court play on the inbounds. So shes screaming at me, it's our fault she lost the game in not so many nice words. I told here I was sorry..but she was given false information and she should have questioned the inbounds at the time. I quickly left. It was an interesting locker room afterwards!

What did your partner say in the locker room? Did he/she say anything about what communication was given? Better yet, did you discuss the spot amongst each other during the timeout? I do not see this as just your partner's fault if it was granted and never communicated to the crew.

Peace

Honestly, I'd never even consider that my partner would give a coach such horribly inaccurate information, so I wouldn't even know to cut it off.

+1

Incredible that someone doing a BV game would even entertain the thought of half-court throw-in.

I agree, but I still make that clear every single time there is a timeout and really make sure when I am the administering official. For one I would be standing in the spot or plane of the spot with the ball. And with 2.5 seconds we would be talking as well to make sure we know who has the last second shot and cover possible situations that need to be shared. And not everyone that works varsity is the best of the best, so I would not assume much of anything. That is also why I asked what did the partner say he/she told the coach. It is possible that they did not tell them the information and the coach assumed something (and they should know better too) rather than knowing the rule. I am just saying this is a perfect example of why you talk to each other so that if anyone is misinformed you can give them the proper information. Heck you can do this multiple times if multiple timeouts are called in the last minute or so.

And most of all, we need to grow some (whatever that might be). Who gives a damn what the coach is yelling about when you are for sure right and even if you are not right, who gives a damn what they think anyway?

Peace

I agree, and this is something I'm trying to work on this year as well. I want to be more proactive with communicating throw-in spots after a timeout. Let my partner know before the TO is even reported. Stand at the spot with a neon sign if I have to.

It is astonishing that things like this happen but they do. The solution to the problem in the future is to ALWAYS get together during the crucial time of the game and discuss it. I was working a game last week with two DI officials and although they knew exactly what was going to happen, we discussed the situation at every full timeout.

-Josh

Spot Of The Throwin ...
 

Even with Connecticut being the last bastion of the two person game, we always have one of the two officials at the spot where the ball will be inbounded, with the ball in hand. The other official will be at the division line, on one, or the other, side of the jump ball circle. If for some reason we need to get together to discuss something, the ball is left at the spot of the throwin. If the coach wants to know where the ball will be inbounded, it will always be where the ball is, 100% of the time.

Very unfortunate situation. With 2.5 seconds left, the crew should have gotten together to make sure that all were on the same page for the final play. Perhaps worth a pre-game reminder that the official administering the throw-in will ALWAYS be at the throw in spot (or close to it, if the spot is near a team bench area).

While your partner was certainly gave incorrect information, this one is somewhat on the entire crew. The entire crew should know where the throw-in spot is (where the administering official is standing with the ball). The time for your partner to question the throw-in position should have been early in the time out when you were along the end line. Once again, had it been discussed in pre-game (or during your get together during the time out), the problem likely never would have presented itself as it did.

I, for one, will make sure we discuss this in pre-game tonight (even though I am working with my normal crew!). Just my humble opinion.

Very good points!!!

Honestly, I've never known an HS varsity official to use the phrase "inbound the ball" instead of "throw-in".


BZ68 "relays" the info to the table? I usually "report" time-outs, not relay info.

Coach asks "trail" instead of asking the "new lead"?

I'm doubting the veracity of portions of this accounting.

I am not a fan of putting the ball down. There are too many people that can mess with the ball or trip over the ball like cheerleaders. I would rather hold onto the ball and tell the coach the spot. Because in your situation the ball can be moved by someone and then what? I would rather them hear it from us where the spot is if we have to leave the spot to talk near the end of the game. Otherwise I stand near the spot and will not stand near the benches either.

Peace

Why doesn't the "off" official come to the throw-in spot instead the administering official leaving the ball?

I totally, totally agree! I am as much to blame as my partners for this instance! My partner after the game stated that he had in fact told the coach this..and he still felt the whole game wasn't messed up..just last 2.5. So he wasn't to blame.
Long story short...I should have stepped up..taken control of situation. Made sure it was correct. Hind sight is 20/20.

Maybe I'm Just Lucky ...
 

Others on the Forum, in the past, have criticized me on this point before. Thirty-two years. No one has ever moved the basketball. Never ever.

You are totally correct...I just phrased it wrong. I apologize for that. I'm in my 9th year of varsity and I should have worded it better.

It's Not An Approved NFHS Signal ...
 

That's what usually happens, but sometimes the official at the throwin spot will initiate the conference, and he probably doesn't want to use the unapproved "come hither" signal. We also like to have one person near the division line to deal questions regarding substitutes, team fouls, timeouts, clock issues, when do we get our checks, where's the nearest local joint where we can get an adult beverage after the game, etc.

I've always been taught not to leave the throw-in spot vacated. Any questions that MAY come up with the table can be dealt with before or after going to the throw-in spot.

I have no idea what you do in your area, I just stated what I would not do. Around here there are student sections that would move the ball if you gave them the opportunity and cheerleaders that pay little attention when a timeout is called. So in my experience all it takes is one time and I would not want to take that chance. Remember you said you still work 2 Person in your state so who knows what kind of attention to basketball your state might have. Here I would be scared if I put the ball down and some cheerleader fell over the ball. BTW, I had seen a cheerleader almost trip over a ball before and it was not in my game. As always, do what works for you, but I would not do that here, EVER!!!

Peace

You are saying that people in your state regulate what signal a partner to "come here?" Wow is all I have to say.

Peace

I would suggest you discuss this in pregame - no matter how many times you work with someone. Know the status of the ball before granting a timeout and know the position for the throw-in before reporting to the table. Every time, the same thing.

I also would not relay any information. If I grant the timeout, I will report the timeout to the table.

Did you have any feeling that things weren't totally right during the entire game? If so, could you have made sure your communication was on point in a situation like this? If those officials aren't as experienced as you, then the assignor may have put you on the game to keep things like this from happening (assuming you work in a system that would allow that). I know I will assign myself or the assistant crew chief as the U2 to give someone else an opportunity to be the R. If something isn't right during the game I'm sure not going to keep quiet because I'm not the R.

Sometimes the Connecticut jokes and other humor get in the way of getting your point across. This may be one of those times. The whole unapproved "come hither" signal thing is a joke isn't it? :D

This is the very reason assignors at higher levels are looking for Rs and not U1s and U2s so they can have those step up and handle these situations without being prompted.

Peace

+1

+1000

Peace

Trying To Get The Frankenstein's Monster Signal Approved Also ...
 

Yeah. That's right. We're trying to get the "come hither" signal approved here in Connecticut. We won't push too hard because we don't want to lose our NFHS voting rights.

Bumper Cars ...
 

IAABO mechanics won't allow us to do that. In fact, I believe that back when we used NFHS mechanics, a change was made, also not allowing us to do that, i.e bumping the timeout. But, then again, I know more about quantum physics than I do about recent NFHS mechanics.

Why would you need approval for a method of communication? Next thing you are going to tell me if I signal that we have 1 and 1 I have to use an approved method. I guess I would just be wrong then. :rolleyes:

Peace

The NFHS doesn't care if you modify mechanics...just game rules.

We bump a timeout. Never had an evaluater say anything about it.

Point After ...
 

Agree.

My point: If a official with the basketball (or just the basketball, which is rarely used, but acceptable, in my little corner of Connecticut) is at the throwin spot, then there will never be a problem with a coach not knowing where the throwin will occur.

You cannot just tell them?

Peace

Erratum ...
 

I misspoke. Connecticut uses IAABO approved signals.

Things That Go Bump In The Night ...
 

Allowed under NFHS mechanics, or just a local mechanic?

Not everything is regulated by mechanics.

Peace

Question Asked, Question Answered ...
 

If they ask, the official at the division line simply points to his partner, who has the basketball at the throwin spot. If they don't ask, we don't offer the information.

All Politics Are Local ...
 

Thus my reference to a "local mechanic". Here in Connecticut we point to the three point line when a shooter has stepped on the line. We also use the "hard foul" signal. I believe that both are local to Connecticut, and are not approved by IAABO.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5274/5...b354c999_m.jpg http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6001/5...942a16cb_m.jpg

Dear God, thank you for ordering my steps in locations other than Connecticut. It is not that the state or the people are bad. It is just that I like to officiate and I know that there are some things in officiating that are important and some that aren't. You know me better than anyone else and you know nitpicking at me about those small things would not work out too well.

Amen.

Again, it is not a "mechanic" to signal to your partner to come to you. Or better yet there are not mechanics that I am aware of that suggest we even talk. Not everything is a mechanic if we choose to do so or even communicate on some things. It just drives me crazy when people worry about what is approved than officiating. You are telling me someone in your area is going to get upset because someone signaled their partner to come to them? This sounds about as silly as when I was signaling a 1 and 1 to my partner in a summer game and one of my partners who has a problem getting varsity games of any kind, was worried about the way I held my hands and the fact that my fingers were not perfectly straight. He did this while not worrying about why he missed a BC violation which he was the Trail and was the only one that had the match-up in question. Maybe I am wrong, but I guess I will never understand why people always worry about what is a mechanic rather than learning to just do your job. And if I have to signal to my partner to come and talk with me, I doubt anyone I have ever been around would give a damn if the mechanic is in the book at either the HS or college level. Never had anyone complain at a camp for sure.

BTW, many officials I know and work with use the pointing to the floor signal all the time. No one cares if it is not listed anywhere. There are bigger fish to fry I guess. And no we are not IAABO affiliated at all.

Peace

+1

I'll add that there are times to deviate from the "officially approved" mechanics. Just know why you are doing it and (as appropriate) be sure all officials are on the same page.

If I'm calling official on TO, I try and always tell coach or asst where they are inbounding and always try and look and communciate with partners where the throw in will take place. I may miss it on occasion but will ALWAYS do in a tight situation. Just being proactive.

I refuse to believe any of that (regarding Connecticut).

Local mechanic. NFHS does say the mechanic is for the official who called the timeout to administer the time out. However, if I on the endline call the timeout and we are going the length of the floor, my partner will administer the timeout and I would stay where the ball will be inbounded, preventing a "long switch". Saves steps. We always have one person at the spot of the throw in during any time out. There is no dispute as to where the ball will be inbounded.

I am starting to agree with this position the more and more I read about those issues.

Peace

Sorry To Waste Your Time ...
 

I was being facetious. It was obviously very poorly worded, and I apologize for taking up your time with a my silliness. At least tomegun got it. The clue should have been "Trying To Get The Frankenstein's Monster Signal Approved Also".

Again, my point, that I certainly could have done a much beter job of expressing: If a official with the basketball (or just the basketball, which is rarely used, but acceptable, in my little corner of Connecticut) is at the throwin spot, then there will never be a problem with a coach not knowing where the throwin will occur.
__________________

Bump The Timeout ...
 

We used to be able to do this, calling it "bumping the timeout", but then it got changed to having to go from the endline, to the reporting area, and then back to the endline, with our partner taking his spot at the division line.

I can't remember if it was changed under NFHS mechanics (that we use to use several years ago), or our newer IAABO mechanics.

I do remember our local interpreter telling us the reason for the change, because there were some mistakes taking place during the "bump". Official 1 grants a request for a timeout to Team A, it gets "bumped" to his partner, who happens to be closer to the table, and Official 2 reports the timeout as charged to Team B. That's how the reasoning was explained to us. With no "bumping", Official 1 grants the request for the timeout, and he's the one who reports the timeout to be charged to Team A. No chance for a mistake.

If anyone wasted my time, it was me. ;)

Peace

Needs to be communication between the two officials for sure, to avoid any confusion. I don't think it is the "Official" NFHS mechanic, but like I said, I have never been questioned about it. I have been calling with the same partner for almost 10 years, so we pretty much know exactly were the other is going to be at all times.

If I have to, I set the ball on the floor at the inbounds spot. It's a good indication of where the inbounds spot is and I've never had anyone touch the ball. If I am at the spot, I hold the ball on the side of me where the spot will be. We will at least make eye contact and point to the spot. If we talk, we say WHO has the ball and WHERE. Good habits come in handy at crucial times.

But you said that in Connecticutt the non-administering official never goes to the throw-in spot. That the administering official has to leave the ball at the throw-in spot to facilitate any conversations.

Am I wrong in that inference?

Singing Along, Side By Side ...
 

We have been instructed to hold the ball either in front of our body, or behind our body, if the throwin is on an endline, to remind us which way the ball is going. Similarly, on the sideline, hold the ball on one side, or the other.

Leave The Ball There ...
 

We have been told that, during a timeout, if the administering official, who is on a boundary line, wants to initiate a conversation with his partner, who is on the division line, that the administering official should leave the ball on the boundary line as he moves toward his partner. Usually the nonadministering official will move toward his partner also, meeting somewhere near the free throw line, or three point line. In a real noisy gymnasium, and we have several of those, if the administering official can't get his partner's attention, then he may end up moving all the way to the division line. In either case, we leave the ball on the boundary line.

I've been taught never to leave the ball on the court......

When In Connecticut ...
 

Just recently, maybe within the past five years, we were told that we were allowed to leave the ball on a boundary line. Previously, there wasn't any guideline in regard to this.