Game ends with intentional foul
 

Team A down by 3 with 5 seconds left. A1 advances ball and is gathering himself to shoot a long 3 pointer. B1 hits him like a mack truck and he hits the floor. He did get the shot off and an intentional foul is called. Horn sounds, basket is no good. We clear the lanes and give the shooter 3 shots. He missed the first...game over. I learned coach told them to intentionally foul (which is a seperate sportsmanship topic). Was this handled correctly?

For the FTs, yes.

Near-newbie says yes.

"4.19.3 SITUATION A:

B1 is charged with an intentional foul on A1 who is in the act of shooting: (a) a successful two-point or three-point try; (b) an unsuccessful two-point try; or (c) an unsuccessful three-point try.

RULING: In (a) and (b), A1 is awarded two free throws. In (c), A1 is awarded three free throws. In all situations following the free throws, Team A is awarded a throw-in at the out-of-bounds spot nearest the foul."

From the description a flagrant intentional foul with ejection is warranted which covers the sportsmanship issue even if you find out about it after the fact.

Is the foul called at the same time the horn goes off or is there still time on the clock? If there is time on the clock, let them shoot all 3 foul shots and inbound the ball.

There is no such animal as a flagrant intentional foul. Fouls are only intentional or flagrant.

And if a coach directs his players to give a take foul, I have no issues with it provided they do so correctly (play on the ball, no excessive contact, isn't away from the ball, etc.) just like I wouldn't for a team fouling at the end to try and come back.

I'd be very aware of the clock here, and do everything I could to see time on the clock so that kid gets every one of his FTs and the team has a chance to at least try for a tap/try.

Yup; handled properly.

If a team is going to use this technique to end the game, do your best to see the clock greater than zero after the whistle sounds. This gives them the throw-in, even if it's far away. They could still make a game of it even if they miss a FT.

I should have added to my previous response that here I would be writing a "special report" to the state with the information I found out after the fact. the sate might be imposing additional penalties.

Logically, it almost HAS to have some time left on the clock. If the foul happened before the horn, you have to put time back on the clock (and as others have said, this is the right thing to do in interest of sportsmanship as well). If the horn happened before the foul, then it almost definitely happened before the shot as well, so you really have no shot or foul.

It's possible, but unlikely, that the foul occurred in that sliver of time that would have the clock actually running out.

It's easy to picture, though, it happening close enough that the clock runs out and we don't see the clock in time because we're trying to prevent a fight.

Unless your an airborne shooter, release the ball, while the ball is mid flight the horn goes off, the foul happens before the shooter returns to the floor.

It does happen though. I had one a couple of years ago at the end of the 4th quarter of a tie ball game where a player went up for a layup, got hammered and the horn sounded immediately after he got fouled. There was no perceptible amount of time that we could put on with definitive knowledge.

Are you trying to say that doesn't define a "sliver of time"? I didn't say impossible. Just very unlikely, especially when we're talking about an intentional foul - those very often occur before release of the ball or simultaneously.

Agreed, most do happen prior to a shot.

Well, if it was prior to the shot, then the player is only getting 2 FTs.

And, without a monitor, there's no support for putting and arbitrary .3 seconds (or something) on the clock just because you saw the contact an instant before you heard the horn.

Twist And Shout ...
 

This thread got me thinking about intentional fouls near the end of the game. I know that an official can only charge intentional fouls, and technical fouls during a dead ball, and that other types of fouls during dead ball period should be ignored.

I'd like to twist around the original situation in this thread. Let's say that Team A is up by two points with a few seconds to go in the fourth period. For some unknown reason (kids do the darnedest things) A1 intentionally fouls B1 by bear hugging B1 (who is not in the act of shooting) as B1 is driving to the basket, but he's a little slow, and the beer hug contact is made a full second after the horn sounds to end the fourth period.

Is the foul charged? If so, is this a technical foul, or an intentional personal foul? It makes a difference because these fouls have different penalties that will dictate who shoots the free throws.

Bob:

Loners4me stated that he "learned coach told them to intentionally foul". I am going to presume that this was information that came from a third source. If that is that case, as much I would love to punish the coach if he really did order such conduct, BUT I would not report such conduct of the coach unless I could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that that coach really did give such an order. We need to remind our young officials that their game reports should to quote Joe Friday: "Just the facts, ma'am."

MTD, Sr.

Don't confuse NFHS and NCAA rules!
If this is an NCAA game with a monitor, the official will restore the time from when the contact occurred. However, under NFHS rules the official can only restore what was seen once the whistle blows and the timer should by rule have stopped the clock.
So if the calling official is slow on the whistle, there is a high probability that the period will end with the FTs.

If the foul wasn't prior to the horn, you wouldn't have a shooting foul, therefore there must be time left on the clock. This has been a POE in Georgia the past couple of years. In the case of a foul called on a last second shot, we do put time back on the clock (most use .3), and never shoot the free throws with the lane cleared.

Micro-chip whistle
 

Anyone seen the whistles now-a-days with the microchip in them that stops the clock immediately on the sound of the whistle? Honig's has them, but they require more hardware (and software?) by the venue hosting the contest. VERY interesting. I would bet it'll be standard equipment in a few years. Can't believe the NBA or NCAA hasn't progressed to this technology.

Not sure about the NBA but the NCAA has...

It would eliminate a lot of the above "what if's". There'd be little to no question about "time left on the clock" or "by the time you SAW the foul and then looked up, how much time was there?" Knaw mean? lol ;)

No, but that's pretty cool. Would love to see the technology make it to the HS level, but, at least in these parts, I'm not sure we'll ever even see a shot clock mandated due to the cost. It would take a lot of guesswork out of the equation.

It's called PTS, used widely in college. Don't expect it soon in high school.

The NBA uses PTS for every game. Most of the major conferences use it as well but it isn't used for the NCAA tournament. By the way the technology is call precision time system.

Then GA is failing to follow the NFHS rule. See my post above.

1) I think you can have a shooting foul after the horn sounds.

2) GA can do what it wants, of course, but recognize that it's not the rule and not what is used in most of the rest of the country.

Agree.

You may not be able to have a foul on the player in the act of shooting after the horn because the ball would be dead at the horn and there would be no shot since the ball was not released before the horn. Howeer, you can have a foul on the airborne shooter after the horn (ball was released prior to the horn).

I respectfully disagree. As with all rules, we are here to interpret them. The interpretation here is that if the player is fouled in the act of shooting, there must be time on the clock (.1, or .3, or whatever). If there is no time on the clock, then the foul must have occurred after time expired.

You could also have a flagrant or intentional foul if the shooter lands and then gets run over while the shot is still in the air.

Technically, you could also have a common foul (and even a bonus ft situation).

Not according to NFHS standards.

Of course, I am referring to a foul "on the shot"...not an undercut after the release.

After the release can still be "on the shot" or more accurately "in the act of shooting".
5-6-2 exception 3

3. If a foul occurs so near the expiration of time that the timer cannot get the clock stopped before time expires or after time expires, but while the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal. The quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed. No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period to the next, except when a correctable error, as in 2-10, is rectified. No free throw(s) shall be attempted after time has expired for the fourth quarter or any extra period, unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.

Except you can have a foul if the sequence is:

Shot is released before the horn
Horn
Airborne shooter is

There's no rule basis or interpretation that should add time back on the clock.

See 5.6.2G (last year's book) for an example of the play we are discussing where time is NOT put back on the clock.

This year's book also.

5.6.2 SITUATION G:

The score is tied when A1 is fouled in the act of shooting and the try is unsuccessful. Playing time for the fourth quarter expires while the ball is in flight. No players are allowed along the lane. A1's first free-throw attempt is *successful. Immediately following the made free throw the occupants of the Team A bench rush onto the court and a mini celebration takes place.

RULING: The *second free throw is not required. No penalty unless the celebration or any act is unsporting and a foul is charged to Team A before the final score has been approved. (5-6-2 Exception 3)

Here is the scenario as posed on our exam study guide this year. Let me clear up any confusion earlier. I don't think I made it clear when the horn sounded in relation to the whistle.......

"If time runs out and the horn sounds immediately after the official blows his/her whistle to indicate a shooting foul, the free throw shooter shall attempt the resulting free throws with no time remaining on the game clock and no players occupying the lane spaces. (FALSE)"

In this case, we have been instructed to put time back on the clock (.3 is typically suggested)

There are conflicting cases/rules on this topic and it has been debated before. One case says that the clock should not be corrected and that the FTs would be shot with no one on the lane.

In other places, it says that if the officials sees a specific time on the clock when the whistle is blown and the clock continues to run after that the official should restore the time (no guessing, the official must know the time that should be there).

There used to be a rule that said the clock was properly stopped if it didn't run more than 1 second after the whistle. That rule was changed a few years ago to remove that buffer. The clock is expected to stop when the whistle blows and any overrun is to be corrected.

That case that says to let the time stay as it was when it runs a small amount after the whistle predates the point where the rule on lag time was changed.

I believe that the case play was not updated to reflect the current timing rules and I will put time back on the clock IF I know how much time should be there. If the foul/whistle occurred just as it was turning from 0:00.1 to 0:00.0 then I'm not putting anything back.

That case play is 5.2.5.C, and IMO, it contradicts refiator's exam answer.

Only way I am putting any time back on the clock is if I know 100% for a fact and if I actually saw the clock at the time of the whistle.