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-   -   False multiple foul w/ T first (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93011-false-multiple-foul-w-t-first.html)

Joel Poli Sun Nov 25, 2012 09:10am

False multiple foul w/ T first
 
2012 IAABO Refresher question 73

A-1 is in the act of shooting when B-2 is assessed a technical foul. A-1 continues the motion and is fouled
by B-1. The try is successful. The official awards A-1 one free throw followed by administering the technical
foul and awarding team A the ball at the division line opposite the scorer’s table. Is the official correct?
rules reference given 4-19-12, 8-6-2

Answer sheet is no. I believe that it is because we administer the fouls in the order that they occur. Shoot the T first then administer 1 shot for personal foul. How would we administer the personal foul shot? lane cleared so that we would have a division line throw-in? or have players occupy the lane spaces and play off the miss or make?

JP

bob jenkins Sun Nov 25, 2012 09:41am

Door #1

Scrapper1 Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:11am

According to the person who wrote the exam and IAABO's lead interpreter, you line the players up and play off the make or miss. The penalties are administered in the order in which they occur. Since there was a foul after the technical foul, the possession portion of the penalty is lost.

Joel Poli Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:33am

Thanks. Hope I never see this play!

JP

BktBallRef Sun Nov 25, 2012 09:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 863330)
According to the person who wrote the exam and IAABO's lead interpreter, you line the players up and play off the make or miss. The penalties are administered in the order in which they occur. Since there was a foul after the technical foul, the possession portion of the penalty is lost.

Are you in agreement?

Adam Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 863390)
Are you in agreement?

I agree.

Scrapper1 Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 863390)
Are you in agreement?

I don't like it, but I see the logic of it. To answer your question directly, no, I don't agree. But I also can't find any definitive citation to "disprove" the test answer.

Adam Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 863423)
I don't like it, but I see the logic of it. To answer your question directly, no, I don't agree. But I also can't find any definitive citation to "disprove" the test answer.

I've always been told false multiples are enforced in order of occurance. The rule simply says they each carry their own penalty, but doesn't note the order. I think that's implied by the fact that there's a distinctive order of the fouls.

just another ref Mon Nov 26, 2012 02:37pm

It is not logical that a team is spared part of the penalty for a foul by committing another foul.

BillyMac Mon Nov 26, 2012 03:16pm

Live Long And Prosper ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 863454)
It is not logical that a team is spared part of the penalty for a foul by committing another foul.

Mr. Spock has never been, nor will he ever be, the NFHS basketball rules editor.

Adam Mon Nov 26, 2012 04:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 863454)
It is not logical that a team is spared part of the penalty for a foul by committing another foul.

I don't disagree, but the frequency of this particular sasquatch is such that it's not really worth screwing with the rules to fix it.

just another ref Mon Nov 26, 2012 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 863465)
I don't disagree, but the frequency of this particular sasquatch is such that it's not really worth screwing with the rules to fix it.


What is there to fix? I haven't seen anything written which supports this particular interpretation.

Adam Mon Nov 26, 2012 04:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 863466)
What is there to fix? I haven't seen anything written which supports this particular interpretation.

The fact that there's no rule that says FM fouls can be enforced in anything but order of occurance.

Adam Mon Nov 26, 2012 04:42pm

What would you do if the op was changed so the second foul was a PC on A1?

just another ref Mon Nov 26, 2012 05:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 863468)
The fact that there's no rule that says FM fouls can be enforced in anything but order of occurance.

Is there a rule which says a part of one of the penalties can/shall be waived to preserve the order of the administration? Why not cancel the free throw for the personal and give the offended team the ball?


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