False multiple foul w/ T first
 

2012 IAABO Refresher question 73

A-1 is in the act of shooting when B-2 is assessed a technical foul. A-1 continues the motion and is fouled
by B-1. The try is successful. The official awards A-1 one free throw followed by administering the technical
foul and awarding team A the ball at the division line opposite the scorer’s table. Is the official correct?
rules reference given 4-19-12, 8-6-2

Answer sheet is no. I believe that it is because we administer the fouls in the order that they occur. Shoot the T first then administer 1 shot for personal foul. How would we administer the personal foul shot? lane cleared so that we would have a division line throw-in? or have players occupy the lane spaces and play off the miss or make?

JP

Door #1

According to the person who wrote the exam and IAABO's lead interpreter, you line the players up and play off the make or miss. The penalties are administered in the order in which they occur. Since there was a foul after the technical foul, the possession portion of the penalty is lost.

Thanks. Hope I never see this play!

JP

Are you in agreement?

I agree.

I don't like it, but I see the logic of it. To answer your question directly, no, I don't agree. But I also can't find any definitive citation to "disprove" the test answer.

I've always been told false multiples are enforced in order of occurance. The rule simply says they each carry their own penalty, but doesn't note the order. I think that's implied by the fact that there's a distinctive order of the fouls.

It is not logical that a team is spared part of the penalty for a foul by committing another foul.

Live Long And Prosper ...
 

Mr. Spock has never been, nor will he ever be, the NFHS basketball rules editor.

I don't disagree, but the frequency of this particular sasquatch is such that it's not really worth screwing with the rules to fix it.

What is there to fix? I haven't seen anything written which supports this particular interpretation.

The fact that there's no rule that says FM fouls can be enforced in anything but order of occurance.

What would you do if the op was changed so the second foul was a PC on A1?

Is there a rule which says a part of one of the penalties can/shall be waived to preserve the order of the administration? Why not cancel the free throw for the personal and give the offended team the ball?

8-6-2: If there is a multiple throw and both a single personal and single technical foul are involved, the tries shall be attempted in the order in which the related fouls occurred, and IF (emphasis added) the last try is for a single technical foul... the ball shall be put in play by a throw-in.

Now, what would we do if the fouls were simultaneous?

B1 gets charged with a T. Either during the 2nd FT or during the ensuing throw-in while the thrower has the ball, B2 fouls A3 in the backcourt near the endline. The foul by B2 is the 8th of the half by Team B.

This is also a False Multiple foul. I have simply put more lag between the two fouls in order to make it clearer what the proper admin is.

Obviously, Team A loses the throw-in at the division line when the penalty for the foul by B2 is enforced.

The fact that there's no rule that says FM fouls can be enforced in anything but order of occurance.

That's it. No more questions. Saving grace is that I anticipate that I will never see such a false double/multiple occur in this sequence.

How about the scenario that I posted in #17? The throw-in foul is not that uncommon.

A didn't lose the throw-in. The ball was put in play. Nothing says the throw-in has to end any certain way.

As to your other scenario, I refuse to consider the possibility of a personal foul during a technical free throw.

Invoke 2-3.

I agree. And, I'm likely having the T be second.

And, since the definition of double fouls and multiple fouls and SIMULTANEOUS fouls include "at approximately the same time" can a T and a PF that occur during the same act of shooting (which in all but extreme cases is a failry short period of time), be considered "simultaneous?"