video
 

Fixed it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL2l2...ature=g-crec-u

No Call ...
 

"I know nothing. I hear nothing. I see nothing." (Sergeant Schultz)

Hogan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Embedded for your pleasure
 

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zL2l2UjWEBc?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What is the significance of this video?

Peace

???
 

Ditto

Shot clock operator either reset the ball erroneously with the ball not touching the rim or reset it late. When the officials noticed and blew the play dead, the offense was in the act of shooting and made the shot.

I think OP is asking if you'd blow the play dead and give it back to the offense OOB or just count the basket and move along (which in this case, isn't correct by rule).

I was thinking that there was something that was being asked, but it there was no question. I first thought that it might have something to do with the shot clock being reset too early. Honestly I cannot completely tell if the ball touched the rim. If noticed right away, then you give the ball back to the team in possession. Then again I can see giving the ball to Team B because the shot was made. I do not think there is anything right or wrong there, but killing the shot clock operator when they do this to you.

Peace

I'd be inclined to count the basket and give Team B their throw-in.

Then give the shot clock person a stern look while doing just that. :D

Peace

I like your first suggestion better.

I don't know how you prove it either way, but what do you suppose happens more often: these type of errors, or stall-ball games?

I don't understand the question.

This took place during an NCAA D-III game, so the issue of having or not having a shot clock does not come into play in this instance.

I don't know, but if all things being equal as far as costs go, I'd still want the shot clock for the high school game (which is what I'm assuming you're leading too with this question).

And we would have so many problems with the shot clock and these situation than we ever would without the shot clock. We have a ton of problems just at the small college level. I can imagine some parent doing the shot clock and all the times the clock starts too early or does not get reset properly.

Peace

Would there be some issues compared to college and the pros? Sure, but I think after an initial adjustment period, I don't think it would be that big of an issue...just my opinion (and I've been known to be wrong a time or two lol).

I think the issues are not just about the shot clock itself. The issues would be things that need to be corrected or debated and argued with the participants all the time. In small college even when I am paying attention I see a lot of misapplication of the shot clock by the table people there. It happens so often that most of the time you start to make concessions for minor mistakes that if you tried to correct every time, you would spend another 20 minutes added to each game.

And if I had not seen HS people screw up play clocks in football or simple game clock situation, I would have a different opinion. Just Wednesday I was working a HS tournament where we were at a college and I had to correct the game clock like 3 or 4 times. And I consider myself to be very good with the clock because of my college background and was taught to pay attention. I can easily see officials not noticing these things and having major mistakes going unnoticed. It took me time to be that cognizant of the clock and most HS officials have a problem calling travels right, now we are going to have them now follow a shot clock? Do you know how many debates I have had with officials about the last second shot and they are convinced that someone other than the opposite table official should watch the clock or go the the "Cadillac" position all because they think watching the clock is going to help them see a last second shot better. Now we want to involved another element to that equation when they cannot get the basic stuff right now? No thank you. It would be an administrative disaster in a big state like this as there is so much inconsistency as to who ran the shot clock and how much attention to detail they would have to the people that even were responsible.

Peace

There are certainly points there I don't disagree with you there JRut...

In a perfect world I would have no problem with a change. I just do not think it would be worth all the headaches we already have on top of this situation.

Peace

APG, there would be problems where you currently work HS ball.

I really don't see this as a problem worth solving. I can count on one hand the number of times I see a possession last up to a minute, and that's being generous. It wouldn't be worth the headaches because there'd be virtually no benefit around here.

The most egregious and most substantial case I've seen was in the 2012 Oregon 5A girls state championship.

Class 5A girls championship: Springfield defeats Willamette 16-7 after Wolverines' stall tactics fail - OregonLive.com
The final was 16-7. It was an atrocity to watch.

My point is not that it never happens, but that the frequency of these "problems" isn't high enough to justify the headaches associated with the proposed solutions.

Since we have completely hijacked Jim's thread...

We have had the shot. Lock in Washington State for a number of years. It really is not that hard to deal with, and the problems are not as numerous as some of us on this board are saying...even during the "transition period", it just wasn't that bad. And we have 30 seconds for girls and 35 for boys...not that big of a deal.

Agree. The only time I ever encounter issues with it is during the early stages of the season and even then its not that bad. Most of the schools around here have operators who have been doing it for years so they pretty much have it down.

I wish all states would use a shot clock. It would cut down on the time explaining to visiting teams from out of state how it works, when it resets, etc.

...SAY WHAT? REALLY? :confused:

Are you trying to tell this forum that "MOST HIGH SCHOOL" officials have a problem calling travels right? MOST OFFICIALS?:mad:

C'MON Man...

BTW...I don't mind the shot clock at all, here in Washington State. Sure there are times you deal with it...no big deal.

Not a big deal on the hijacking...thankfully it wasn't my plane. :)

I deliberately held off any comment so that I did not taint the jury pool to see what the responses would be like.

What happened was the L official noticed the reset on the catch/kick out and as the clock hit 34 started to blow the play dead for the improper reset of the shot clock. Did not anticipate the catch and shoot. Once we got the situation corrected, the visiting coach said thanks for doing the right thing, the home coach did not get mad (it was his clock operator). They still scored on the possession.

The options we discussed:
Inadvertent Whistle - count the 3 and move on,
Definite knowledge of time on shot clock - neither outside official knew how much time was left when shot was taken,
Give the ball back to white with 11 seconds - shot clock has recall option.

FWIW, I worked in California for 5 years, with a shot clock at the HS level, and not only enjoyed it, but saw less shot clock issues in my HS games than in my juco games.

I'll take responsibility for this hijack. I guess I won't becoming an air marshall anytime soon.

I appreciate the replies, though. I suppose I was looking for some ammunition locally when I take my anti-shot-clock stance, and while I agree with JRut's points, I'd be foolish to overlook the experience from Rocky and Kings.

Like any other state in the non-shot-clock majority, I have to tell my fellow statesmen, if you really want a shot clock, either a) our state's commission will have to give up its NFHS vote, or b) the NFHS will have to approve it for state adoption, and it would be right back in our commission's hands, anyway. I just don't see it happening here, and the stall ball games are few and far between, anyway, although the pro-shot-clock crowd act like stall-ball should NEVER happen.

Count me as one...in my perfect world, there wouldn't be any stall ball. That's no fun for anyone involved.

You Can't Just Phone In The Score, You Have To Play The Game ...
 

Certainly not as much fun, for the players, coaches, fans, and officials, as an up tempo, fast breaking, slam dunking, game.

However, in order for an undermanned team to have a chance to beat a much more talented team, maybe a taller team, maybe a faster team, maybe a team of more highly skilled players, a stall ball game can level the playing field. And there is some skill involved in a successful stall ball offense. A coach has to devise a game plan that goes against the grain of what teenagers, especialy teenage boys, like to do on the basketball court, that is, run up, and down, the court trying to score at every opportunity. Certainly not an easy task for a coach. It takes a skilled, and patient, coach, and a group of intelligent, and highly disciplined, players, something that can be appreciated by true basketball fans, however it may only be half the fans in the gymnasium that particular night.

Since you can't recruit (well, in most states, at most high schols), then you have to play with waht you have. And if a deliberate game gives you the best chance to win, then play a deliberate game.

What I would like to see -- if one team is holding the ball, and the other team is letting them, then the coaches seem to be agreeing to shoreten the lenght of the quarter. Get them together, agree on a time to be put on the clock (say, 1:00), and resume play.

Here in Oklahoma, we have no shot clock, so we don't have to worry about things like this.

Hmmmmm...I don't know Bob...smells a little like TRAVESTY.;)

i.e. people paying good money to come and watch "1:00 quarter(s)" of a player holding the ball. Maybe if the fans had to watch a full quarter, or more, of a player just holding the ball...pressure would be put on the school to actually PLAY basketball.

As an official I could care less shot clock or no. THough I would rather have 1 set of rules to follow, have people learn etc.

That being said there maybe some merit that in terms of improving players development (and with officials as stakeholders) and improving the game the shot clock does that.

Food for thought:

How The Shot Clock Improves Player Development - theLLaBB

It's something that's specifically in the rules, and, yes, I have used it (not in a "stall" situation). Not a travesty at all.

An interesting play occurred in the Drake/Xavier game on Sunday. Shot clock running down to a couple seconds left, Xavier misses rim, shot clock mistakenly reset, rebound by Xavier and shot made. Drake goes down the other end on offense and gets fouled. Tv timeout. After the TV timeout officials are gathered around the monitor, they use stop watch and determine shot was not in time. Also, they wiped off the foul, put time back on clock and resumed play with a throw in for Drake nearest the violation for the shot clock.

Even more interesting is that it was posted at 6:42 central time last evening here:

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...rake-game.html

ok

I think Rut is spot on with his comment. Travels are probably the most missed call in a high school game. Yes, more than block/charge.

BTW, the table crew is part of our association in Nevada (Las Vegas anyway) and I wouldn't want to even talk about adding someone else to run the shot clock. Would they be trained properly? Yes, because we have some officials and scorekeepers who work college games on the table.

Both directions. I see a lot of officials call travels that really didn't happen.

If it looks ugly, it's a travel. Unfortunately, coaches seem to have the same expectation.

Yeah Rich, I was going to type all of that. We call some things travel that don't look right, but are legal. On the other hand, we let things go that look OK, but are not.