Official Book Change
 

Middle School game last week.

At half time the visiting team book keeper brings to my attention that there is not a #31 in the book but #31 checked in and played.

I check the official book and there is a line crossed through #10 and a #31 written beside it. The clock keeper (the only adult at the table) says oh yea I forgot to tell them we changed the number before the game began.

Visiting team score keeper replies yea but you are the one who wrote your names/numbers in my book.

So we don't know for sure when the correction was made.

How do you handle this?
What call do you make? If you have a no call what do you tell the visiting team?

Did you check the book before the game started? If so, was there a line through #10? If there wasn't, I would assess the T.

If you didn't check the book, it's on you. You can't really assess a T if you didn't check the book before the game.

See case 10.1.2(b).

Citation Please ...
 

I agree with you that the referee should check the book before the game, however, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

I don't have my books with me, but how can you assess a T for something you have no knowledge of? How can you be certain that the official book wasn't correct? The visitor's book has no relevance unless you checked the official book. Turning it around on you, how do you justify a T if you didn't check the book?

The book was not checked in this scenario.

But let's say it was. And let's also assume you checked it a few minutes before the game began.

Joe B (adult at the table) claims it was still changed before the start of the game and that he just forgot to tell the visiting team or you.

Your basis for the T will then be that the number was changed after you checked the book? Even though you have no knowledge if that occured before or after the start of the game?

Confused In Connecticut ...
 

I'm not quite sure about the original post situation, still a little confused, but if a player plays, or played, and this requires a change in the book, my ruling will have little to do with whether, or not, I checked the book before the game. If I'm at the table, and if there's a change being made in the home (official) book while I'm standing there, then I'm charging a technical foul, whether, or not, I checked the book, or not, before the game.

Does it matter whether it was changed before or after the game started? Is that the right time frame?

Does it matter that the V scorekeeper brought it to your attention at halftime? Is that the right criterion for assessing a T?

Methinks you should read the OP again...pay closer attention to when the change was made. Can you tell from the OP when the change was made? The part I highlighted in blue - that's your imagination adding something that wasn't there.

Confused In Connecticut ...
 

I read it again. The entire situation still confuses me.

Again, in general ...

Regarding changing the book, in general, very little in my thought process will involve whether, or not, I checked the book before the game.

Yet you questioned me and not the original poster. Well played.

Citation Please ...
 

I was questioning your statement, and I'm still questioning it. Again, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

And again I will throw it back at you and ask - charge a T for what? How do you know that line through #10 and adding of #31 wasn't there at the 10 minute mark before the game started? What exactly are you assessing the T for?

Still Confused In Connecticut ...
 

And again, the original situation still confuses me. I'm speaking in general, and still looking for a citation regarding whether, or not, the referee checks the book before the game and how it impacts on a ruling to charge a technical foul for changing the book.

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

In this area middle school games are often squeezed into the schedule in mid afternoon and at times the visiting team shows up less than 10 minutes before the game, does a couple of quick warm up drills and away we go. Often times the coaches are scrambling to get organized, aren't aware of all of the rules and are dealing with old, passed down warm up jerseys where players have different numbers for home and away and depending on the team they are playing may even use home jerseys for an away game. Table crews are kids and parents who volunteer. I'd say it's rare, to address Bainsey's question, that this would be enforced.

In my association, if I accept a MS game, I better not half-a$$ it. Meaning I will check the book and make each coach sign it (that's how they do it here). Last thing I need is word getting back to my assigner that I didn't bother doing my job because it was "just a middle school game". Our mantra is the game you're working is the most important game of the night. The coaches, players, and parents certainly think it is, and expect us to treat it as such. I'm not saying others wouldn't skip some of the formalities, but I won't.

Agree ...
 

If it's a game assigned by my local IAABO board's assignment commissioner (who assigns both high school games and middle school games), then I agree with Smitty 100%.

Regarding my Catholic middle school games, different assigner, different culture, we're not expected to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, and our assigner allows us to take some shortcuts, i.e. looser mechanics.

We generally ignore late rosters in ms games, but an actual change is different and I'd get this one.

Based on my reading of the OP, and the case I cited, I don't think you should "get this one."

(But I agree with the general sentiment.)

Home team book makes a change to a home number? I'm probably getting it. But I wouldn't talk anyone into it.

10.1.2 (b) "The infraction occurs when the scorer is advised to add to or change the scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize."

In the OP, the book was apparently changed before the game. Once you get to halftime, it's too late to penalize it.

Fire Up The Flux Capacitor ...
 

Bingo.

Common sense would say if you didn't check the book prior to the game, you can't give a technical foul. You don't know when the book was changed, the official scorekeeper said it was fixed prior to the game.

later on...
 

Bob,
If the coach decides to put #10/31 in the game in the second half we will now have to deal with the number change, correct? If the official scorer "claims" he made the change prior to the deadline and we have no knowledge otherwise then we should accept the home book as being correct and again, there is no penalty. Is that correct?

Or, being that we have a situation where we have been made aware the books disagree, get it straightened right now to avoid any problems in the second half?

Billy... you're making this harder than necessary.

What he means is that if you are NOT SURE a rule was broken, you can't charge a T for breaking the rule... and if you didn't bother to check the book before the game, you have absolutely no clue as to whether a rule was broken or not.

And he's right.

"Checking The Book" ...
 

If the number was changed in the book within the proper "time frame" then I'm going to charge a technical foul, whether, or not, I checked the book before the game.

Around here "checking the book" simply means that there are eleven players warming up, and there are eleven players in the book, that all of them have legal numbers, and that none of them have duplicate numbers. I know of no official who makes sure that a 31 listed in the scorebook corresponds with a 31 uniform number on a player warming up.

If the home (official) scorekeeper tells me that a number in the book was changed, I'm going to ask him when it was changed. If there's a challenge from the offended coach, I might ask to see the rosters that the numbers were copied from, but I don't need to do a pregame "check the book" to do any of that. If the number was changed in the book within the proper "time frame", then I'm going to charge a technical foul.

Just because I screw up by not checking the book doesn't mean that two wrongs will make it right. I am not compounding my first mistake by allowing a second mistake to occur.

Maybe "checking the book" is done differently outside of my little corner here in Connecticut?

From My Notes ...
 

Three scorebook situations: adding a name to the team roster, changing a name or a number in the official scorebook, and/or having a player change a uniform number, are penalized with a team technical foul when they occur, after the ten minute time limit. These infractions occur when the scorer is advised to add to or change the official scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize.

After the ten minute time limit a team is charged with a maximum of one technical foul regardless of how many infractions of the following are committed: changing a designated starter, adding a name to the team member list, requiring the scorer to change a team member’s or player’s number in the scorebook, requiring a player to change to the number in the scorebook, and/or having identical numbers on team members and/or players. Each player must wear the number indicated in the scorebook, or change the official scorebook number to that the player is wearing. Any additional substitutes who become players and require the changing of the number indicated for them in the official scorebook will not result in a penalty, as the one maximum technical has already been charged to the team for that team’s administrative infraction

Two Wrongs Don't Make It Right ...
 

Common sense is needed to be a good offcial, but not in this (general) case.

If the home (official) scorekeeper tells me that a number in the book was changed, I'm going to ask him when it was changed. If there's a challenge from the offended coach, I might ask to see the rosters that the numbers were copied from, but I don't need to do a pregame "check the book" to do any of that. If the number was changed in the book within the proper "time frame", then I'm going to charge a technical foul.

Yes it is. In Oklahoma we take the official scorebook, count the players, make sure they have the same amount in the book. Then we take the book to each coach and ask him if everything is correct, and ask them to sign or initial at the bottom. When they sign the book any problems after that are not on the officials, the coach signed that everything was okay. If you don't check the book, and the scorekeeper says it was fixed in time, (prior to the 10 minute mark) how can you assess a technical foul?

Where The Wind Comes Sweepin' Down The Plain ...
 

Good procedure. I wish we did it here in Connecticut.

You can't. And I won't. That's my ruling. I will take the word of the official scorekeeper, after all he is a member of the officiating crew, and he's there to assist us if there be a need. I still didn't need to see the book (even though it should have been done) to do any of this. If the official scorekeeper says that it was changed in a legal manner, and time frame, then that's enough for me. No technical foul charged.

We don't have them sign it, but we check it every game.

You're right.

Middle School game? ...let er slide...

Now, unsporting conduct by a MS coach...whack em' every time!

I think it was one of those "it depends" moments. Some middle school games are highly organized and controlled. Other times they barely have enough players, odd uniforms, or other issues.

I did one game last year with a private school that didn't have enough same gender players that they ended up playing co-ed. I had male and females wearing the same numbers, illegal, yes, but it's pretty easy to identify the person anyway.

Their coach was also the soccer coach who knew very little about the game of basketball, administratively, my partner and I pointed out what was illegal but pushed on.

The book should be checked before every game, regardless of level. But in the original scenario, I am not charging a technical. But the coach will get reminded for the proper procedures.

I'm just going to add something. The rule seems to be written from the perspective of an effective table that is doing everything right. If, however, you have a table who's either unscrupulous or incompetent, I'd be tempted to issue the T. If this was my only indication, I'd likely pass and simply send a note to the assigner.

If, however, this school has a history of this sort of thing, or the scorer has given me trouble indicating they are not up to the task of objectively performing their duties, I can't guarantee I'd pass.

I had a similar situation several years ago as the R in a varsity district tourney game and felt I handled it correctly, still do. The game was at a nuetral site, with an official bookeeper provided. Each team had someone keeping their respective books, one an assitant coach that remained at his bench with book. The other had an adult manager that set at the table with official bookkeeper and clock operator. Towards the end of the first half, when a foul was called and reported on a particular player, the head coach of the opposing team (and of course the one that kept the book at the bench) notified me there was no player in his book by that number. After consulting with the official book, it was determined that the book had been changed when the player (sub) first made an appearance back midway through the first quarter. Apparently the other bookkeeper simply told official keeper when this player entered that his number was actually different and the official bookkeeper made the change and DID NOT tell anyone..officials or the other teams keeper. Having neither scored or fouled until this point, there was no reason for the other teams keeper (also an assist coach prob busy on bench with other stuff) to notice this player until there was need to record a foul. I ruled since we were unable to catch the change when made, we could not assess a T...much to the objections of the coach. I still see him from time to time and I believe he still thinks I was wrong. If I learned anything from that was to remind the bookkeepers(s) NOT to make any changes ANYTIME until consulting with the officials.

A Voice of Reason enters the debate !!!!!
 

+1

I think in this case a T-Foul would have been warranted. The scorekeeper made the change when the player entered, well after the 10 minute pre game mark, and when asked about it they told you when the change was made.

I've had a freshman coach refuse to allow me to charge his opponent with the T.

See 10-1-2c Penalty when it occurs...not discovered. Also, ref 2011-12 casebook 10.1.2 (Foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball becomes live. Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize.)

Funny, I've had a freshman coach insist on the T. Same game and coach who insisted we hsfe a visiting player remove his black undershirt (only the neck showing) from beneath his dark maroon uniform.

...not the coach's call, but I get your point.;)

Wouldn't it be a good opportunity to turn int into a teaching moment for the coaches who may be trying to advance in their careers? Enforcing the T would help them where as you may rob them of a valuable lesson they shouldn't have to learn the hard way when they get to varsity level.

So if this happens within the ten minute window before game start you assess the T, O=other team shoots the free throws and brings the ball in at midcourt and the then the AP arrow switches to the offending team? Is that right?