Does your association/assignor charge schools/referees
 

Does your association or assignor charge the schools for the games they assign or charge the referees anything or do they do it for free? If they do charge anyone how much do they charge and does the money go to the association or the assignor or some of both?

I've officiated in a few states/locations and I've only known assignors to charge referees an assingor's fee ... that goes to them.

A couple of the larger school districts in this area (Denver Metro) have employees do the assigning, so it's part of their normal day to day assignments. I would imagine that the schools pay the others something, but I don't know for certain.

Here on the peninsula of Hampton Roads the assignors charge the schools a flat fee annually to schedule their games (I believe it's in the $50-100 range) and take 8% of each officials game fee.

We are assigned only by conference assignors. So the school hire the assignor that do not have to have affiliation to any association. Bottom line, the assignors hire who they want to from any association. Associations are not assigning bodies around here.

Peace

Our assignors charge us 10% of our game fee (not mileage)...the company that does the billing of schools and pays us our checks charges the schools 13% of the officials fees (not mileage).

our local association charges us an annual fee of $75, the majority of which goes to the member that has agreed to take on the assignor duties. I think he gets paid several thousand bucks to do it.

Hmm. I thought every school in Colorado had to go through an assigner.

Interesting.

My experience here is that all assigner fees are paid by the school unseen by the officials.

Oh yeah, we pay the association a $40 registration fee also.

Adam, I'm thinking of DPS and JeffCo. I could be wrong about that, but I thought that the folks that did the assigning for those games are district employees.

Here in Texas it is against the UIL constitution for schools to pay an assigning fee. Any assignment fees need to be collected from the officials. We pay $1.25 per subvarsity basketball game that goes directly to the assigner. I believe varsity is $3 but I'm not sure. Our chapter bills twice a year for assigner's fees.

In addition to that we pay state association dues and local chapter dues.

I've never seen a state that seems to hold its officials in as little regard as Texas does.

We are the unpleasant odor that follows the automobile to paraphrase Christy Mathewson.

Assigning is a big job and takes a lot of time. Very few do it for free.

How they get paid is done in may ways. Ultimately, they all come out the same.

Regardless of the specific paths the money takes, the school will be paying a certain amount for getting their games officiated. The officials will get a certain amount. The assignor will get a certain amount. Whether the assignors amount comes directly form the schools or from the schools by way of the officials (or both avenues), it doesn't really change things. The assignor deserves to make money off their efforts just as much as the officials make money off their part of the effort.

Of course, the specific amounts assignors make may vary and the total they get can certainly be argued but that doesn't change the fact that the route the money takes is irrelevant.

Our assignor, who assigns about 7,000 games gets a flat fee from the schools for each team's schedule ($25/team, IIRC) and gets 5% from each officials game fees. It make for a pretty nice income but is certainly earned.

My assignor double dips collecting fees from schools and refs, then charges us an additional arbiter fee. In fact this summer I paid for a clinic only to find out the schools paid the assignor for the refs. Double dipped again .......

There is one college assignor who charges his officials for processing their pay checks.

The latter part is typical of all camps that I am aware of. I do not consider that double dipping if you pay for a camp. The camp people need some compensation to provide the officials as they are usually not even paying for the full rate. Someone needs to be paid for their time a the clinic to run it or evaluate those working. Also camps can be expensive to run even with the money paid by the campers if they pay at all.

Peace

Our assignor is paid a fee from each school to assign their games, plus a set fee from the association. (Money that comes from officials' dues)

Do The Math ...
 

Our local board pays a salary of $26,250.00, the number one expense out of our general fund, to our assignment commissioner. This is paid out of our general fund, with the greatest receipts in our general fund coming from our membership dues ($125.00 each member, total dues of $40,625.00 ) and our assignment fees (7% of earnings which generates $35,000.00 to our general fund). Schools only directly pay officials, no money goes from the schools directly to our assignment commissioner.

You couldn't pay me enough to assign games for our local board, even using the Arbiter software. Our assignment commissioner is a class act, is fair, works his butt off, and does a great job. 325 officials. 70 high schools. Boys, girls, varsity, junior varsity, freshman. A couple of dozen middle schools. Twenty game seasons for varsity teams. League playoffs. Schedule changes. Snowouts. Sick officials. Injured officials. Officials that limit, or change, their availability. Local board guidelines to follow for assignments regarding the number, and level, of games that each official is entitled to get assigned based on each official's ratings, and ranking (not an easy job). No thank you. Just give me a ball to toss for jump balls. I don't need, or require, any additional aggravation.

Free? LOL!

We pay a booking fee of $65 to the assignor.

Schools pay the assignor $150 for each varsity team he books and $100 for any others such as JV or 9th grade. So a school with VB, VG, JVB and JVG would pay a $500 fee for the season.

Also, many schools pay the assignor a $100 check writing fee. They pay him for all the games and then he writes checks to officials instead of the schools having to write a ton of checks during the season.

Fair fee for what he does
 

Our assigner charges a very modest fee for the mental gymnastics he has to go through each season... $ 1.50/official/HS game, $1.00/official/MS game.

I assign another sport and we bill our county $76 a game for V and $68 a game for JV (per man). Of that I make 8%. As far as billing referees for arbiter, my qusetion is who owns the arbiter. If the individual assigner does, then I can see him billing you. If it is the association's, then I would think the association would roughly bill you approx $5 for arbiter use (that is what arb charges).

Last year our executive board passed a rule, that allows me to charge the official the assinger's fee ( if i choose to) after your 2nd turnback of the season. This keeps guys from choosing games and forces them to be much more up to gate on closing dates..........

IMO, we officials should not have to pay the overhead associated with assigning mechanism chosen to be used. The association is already getting a yearly registration fee and the assigner takes 8% of every dollar I make.

And considering you get hundreds of games at Boo Williams, you should have no problem forking over another $5, unless you are over paying for the food at the over priced concessions stand there ............:D:D:D:D

Why does it matter if it is a separate charge vs. added into the general fee?

When the charge is broken up, there is an impression of being taken advantage of.

That said, it makes sense that fixed costs (the Arbiter fee) would be passed on separately from the variable stuff (per game fees). I would prefer a bit of transparency, though, and my experience is that some assignors are more open than others.

Sometimes it feels like we get nickle and dimed. There's one assignor I used to deal with who suddenly started using refpay, and charging $1 for each transaction. On top of his normal game fees and Arbiter fee.

Integrity.

How about don't pass it along at all. That assignor is making money for his/her duties also and the association has a business account, why are the officials the ones that have to foot the bill for this?

Integrity? Really? They're not lying about anything or deceiving anyone. They're charging you something and tell you what it is for.

Now, if they're charging you $10 for something under the premise that it is costing them $10 but they're only paying $4 for it, sure, that is an integrity issue. But for them to make a few dollars off of anything is not an issue of integrity. If it were, every single business in the US would have integrity issues.

For that matter, it doesn't cost you $50 to do a basketball game, so why are you taking the money?

I believe most of us are independent contractors and if we do not like the fees we have to pay we can always not work for those people.

Peace

The associations, through their membership, should be able to set those assignors' fees. I've been part of groups where the prevailing attitude was: Take it or leave it. And I'm not fond of that.

I assigned a summer baseball league where I needed 44 umpires at once every week and it was a real nightmare scheduling umpires 36-44. The first 36 were easy and I didn't have to put any time in. Getting those last 8-10 umpires was a freaking nightmare.

That said, at least in the places where I paid an assigning fee directly I knew what it was. Here where I live now, I get paid $60 for a game and have no idea what the assignor gets paid for filling the slots. And the more annoying part about the pay issue is that the schools typically pay timers/scorers more than they pay us -- they're required to pay officials the conference rate, but there's nothing stopping them from paying fellow teachers more than that for working the clock or the book.

In your day job, do you know how much your boss makes? Is it common to know how much your boss makes?

To a degree, the assignor works for the teams/schools. The schools are hiring them to find officials for their games. Short of some state governing body restricting how the assignor is supposed to operate,. It is no different than a general contractor subbing out work to electricians and plumbers. They don't know how much the general makes and shouldn't care as long as they receive a fair wage for the work they do.

No Arbiter being using for any of the Boo Williams games.

In your world are we allowed to care why we are forking over $5 per official for an association/assignor tool?

I thought you said integrity doesn't play a part in this? Now you are saying how does one know what the hidden expenses are. Make up your mind.

Again I ask, why should the officials bear the burden or the association tool? The assignor makes that money back the very first game assigned to each official through the 8-10% assignor's fee. The assignor is making a healthy profit assigning games why can't it be an business expense for him/her or the association itself. Yet to see that answer.

In many areas, the assignor works for the association. I worked for an association where we had to pay 11% of the game fee to the assignor and he only assigned to the association -- nobody else.

He's not "the boss." The association hires him, so he works for the association. The board decided who will assign and how much he will get -- so it's absolutely the business of membership how much the assignor makes and it should be public. And if the membership doesn't like how much he's getting, they should be able to replace the board with people willing to make the decision to pay the assignor less.

And still, many associations try to hide how much the assignor makes to keep others from organizing and voting the board out of office. Amazes me how much politics are involved.

I recognize that some areas, including where you live, have assignors-for-life who don't seem to answer to anyone and who have the fear of membership. I find that unfortunate.

There is no question of integrity here. I didn't say things should be done with no integrity. I am not sure how you think there is an integrity issue unless you're suggesting they're telling you that it costs them X but it really only costs them a much smaller amount.

The assignor has a cost that he's passing on. You may not like it. You may disagree with it. You're an independent contractor and don't have to sign up for the games.

How the money is itemized doesn't really matter. All you are really arguing for is a increase in pay (decrease in the assignors pay). It is nothing more than a red herring to quibble over how the total dollars are divided into categories. If the percentage were just a bit higher and they didn't itemize that one item, would it be an issue?

Why should the assignor take a deduction in pay any more than you?

Sure, they could easily do that. But that really isn't the discussion. The primary point of this thread was about which way to arrange to arrange the dollars, not so much about how much they get paid. In the case where the schools are doing the hiring, it really isn't the officials business to know how much they are getting.

If they are paid from the board, it would be.

As I've said before, the way it is divided really doesn't make a hill of beans difference. 2 + 2 is 4. Regardless whether the $4 comes from one source or $2 comes from two sources, the net is the same. (made up numbers just to make the point).

It is more about envy than politics. Assignors can make a decent amount of money....more than some people make in their day jobs. I really wouldn't want dozens of people always trying to disrupt the organization and take it over. That never works well.

Not sure what you're talking about here. No one fears our commissioner. He is very well respected (not by all, but by most). He's only been an assignor because he's generally done a very good job. He's had completion over the years but most of the would be challengers were laughable. No one felt they could do the job. If a good candidate had run for the position, who knows what would have happened.

Transparency ...
 

Here in my little corner of the Land of Steady Habits, the Arbiter fee is $1,900.00, and is paid for by my local board, from the general fund, not by the assignment commissioner.

Because it is the association/assignor's business expense, not mine. The assignor already gets paid by me (8% of my salary) to assign me games and the association already gets a registration fee from me that covers my tangible administrative costs. BTW, in my association officials only pay the $5 per seat cost if they register after the set deadline.

So obviously there are some assignors/associations that agree with my stance that the MEMBERSHIP (not employees or soldiers) should not be burdended with the normal operating costs of Arbiter.

Heavens to Betsy.

+1

Those assignors/association just increase their percentage or membership dues to cover additional expenses (or reduce the game fees and have the schools pay for it). The fact that some list it as a separate item still doesn't change anything. I suppose you'd rather they just take an addition % out of each game...but that would make those that work a lot of games pay more for it for those that work few games. If you don't have membership dues that could include it, a flat fee for something that is a flat cost/official expense is the fairest way to do it.

Still, no matter how you slice the pie, it comes out the same.

Lawrence Peter Berra ...
 

“You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I’m not hungry enough to eat six.”

You type as if I don't know the accounting of the association before and after it purchased Arbiter. Do you seriously think I would make the comment I made without knowing personally how things were done and accounted for. Are you really that arrogant or do you just think everybody is stupid? :confused:

Both. :(

Neither. I just think too many people worry about about too many trivial things.

I would say arrogant. You don't think anyone who is part of association has any right to know how their fees are spent.

No, that is not what i'm saying.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter if they charge to 2 fees of $40 each or one of $80 (with the details perhaps revealed elsewhere). Some are complaining that they are getting a their charges split into two when it doesn't matter. The total is the same.

Thanks everyone
 

Sorry I didn't check back in for a while but thanks to everyone for their feedback.

That is not what BNR is saying...not what Rich is saying either. Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...

I am really not disagreeing with BNR. I am just pointing out that we are mostly independent contractors (or should be) and it is up to us to decide if we will do business with someone (an association) further based on the fees involved. In my area, we pay a $5 fee for our Arbiter and we belong to the largest consortium of assignors that use the Arbiter system across the country and that is a sore spot for everyone around here. But if you want games do you not pay the fee?

I think transparency is key and best, but if they do not tell you all the fees, then you either continue with that group or go to another that does.

Peace

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Prior to 2010 my association did not use Arbiter. A new commissioner was voted in and part of his platform was that he would purchase Arbiter and pay for it out of his assignor's commission. He won the election and Arbiter was purchased with private funds. The following season Arbiter was renewed out of the business account with no increase in dues to our membership. Our business account always had unspent funds at the end of each season so the dues that were already in place were sufficient to cover the costs of Arbiter. Only folks who joined the association each year after the Arbiter bill was paid were required to pay for their seat. It was $5 in addition to their normal association dues.

So, yes, in the end "we" are paying for Arbiter. However the membership did not incur any additional costs when we went from "pen and paper" to automation. If it came to a point where a dues increase was needed to cover Arbiter I know our membership wouldn't be very receptive to it.

I agree and I feel the assignors or conferences should incur the costs. After all they are the ones that claim they love the system. All it does is make us "slaves" to the assignors will and when we decline a game we have an administrator that acts like we are all children because we decline a game. I am also tired of filling out paperwork that has all that personal information on Arbiter and it seems to be never used. That system benefits them, it does not really benefit the official.

Peace

All associations in WA use arbiter, we have to. It is mandated by the State. So we all knew up front what was going on...our local association was one of the first to use arbiter...BUT, we voted on it before hand and knew that we would be charged the user fee and it would be taken out of our checks. The whole thing was up front and above reproach.

Good friend of mine in a different western state got his first check, noticed that his %deducted per game had gone up from 8% to 10%, and asked why...he was told that the increase was to cover the user fee for arbiter...no way it costs that much per person, and no way they should have sprung it on them without being up front about it. And the next closest association to where he lives is over 100 miles away.

Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but I feel like a software tool like Arbiter makes my life a lot easier as well, so if that costs an extra couple of bucks, I'm happy to pay it. I like having a single place where I can set my blocks, see (and be able to export in different formats) all of my assignments, see who my partners are and their contact info, find school's addresses/maps, etc.

See...some of us around here CAN read!

Well it was forced down our throat. We even were threatened to pay for it as a larger organizations of several smaller organizations. Then we were told that the schools would use the information. Now we have many personal information on a website that can be viewed by who knows and never seems to be used when we go to a school. We still have to fill out pages of paper work that could be verified by someone from the school. It is a joke if you ask me.

Peace

That is ridiculous...al least here all the schools use it also. They can look at their schedule on arbiter and see who the officials are for their upcoming games.

They claim they use it, but they clearly do not use the information to cut checks or for us to fill out for W9s and other tax or payment information. That to me is what is silly and if I am basically threatened to put all that information and schools refuse to use it.

Peace