Rare plays
 

I have two kinds of stories I love to hear from you guys. One is how you deal with problem children. Coaches, players, fans, etc who must be managed.

Yet my other one is weird plays. Situations where you have to know your rule book really well because it will only happen once every 200-1000 games.

Like the opening tip being touched 3 times being a violation. Or when a guy can leave the court dribbling and can return to the court.

If you were talking to me and I have a pretty good idea of the game but needed a little warning about this little rule book issue and where it came up for you. What would your story/warning/example be for me in this thread?

And if you dont have one tell me if you have ever had to deal with a situation where a player is hurt and the opposing coach has demanded he chooses who shoots the free-throws rather then the sub who is coming in.

I started officiating at the youth football level & the coaches were always trying to hustle a call. I didnt know the rules well, so I'd bite on a few, later realizing that I messed up. Thats when I got my nose in the book.

There's no more comfortable feeling than knowing theres nothing that can happen on the court/field that I cant adjudicate properly.


In a HS game, "coach they pay me alot more money when that ruleset is in effect."

Has anyone even had a coach demand this. In my first 1000 games I havent really seen on request it.

Nope, never seen it. Now that it's been instituted at the NCAA level as well, we might see it in the future (once fans realize it's an NCAA rule).

I've had coaches ask me about the restricted arc, but only as a legitimate question (as opposed to the jeapordy version they all play to make a point).

It's been my experience that when coaches spout out about a rule, the difference comes from an NBA rule versus a NFHS rule since NCAA are overwhelming the same. All I think that NCAA-M adopting this rule, which is similar to the NBA rule, will do is reaffirm to some coaches that we're doing it "wrong."

Most any rules discussion I have with a coach is a comedy.

When a coach ask me a question about another level, I usually just say, "That is a college rule" and that usually stops the discussion.

Peace

Padgett makes the coach a bet.
If the coach is right, Padgett will pay him $100.
If the coach is wrong, he washes Padgett's car.

So far no coach has ever taken the bet.

This past February in an NYC HS Girls' game a coach was using a program on her iPad to chart shots, possessions, etc. and I'll admit my partner and I were caught off guard because neither of us remembered NCAA 10-4-2 - or thought to check it in our rule books at halftime - until after the game ended (NYS Girls' play modified NCAA rules).

I contacted my assigner and my rules interpreter and both sent out an e-mail the next day to all officials reminding them the iPad program was illegal.

Plays/situations I'm still waiting to see...
 

*A player using tobacco
*A player grasping the rim to pull himself up and then dunking the ball during the same play...resulting in two Ts. I came close. The kid wasn't able to dunk it.
*(NFHS 10-1-10) Players locking arms to restrict an opponent's movement
*(NFHS 10-3-6e) Climbing on or lifting a teammate to secure greater height
*(10-3-9) Goaltend during a free throw

Seen this in other sports, seems to be a universal rule across multiple HS or college sports.

Seen this before and would only give one T. ;)

Almost saw this one.

Never seen this one.

This happen in the SEC Championship game about 7 or 8 years ago. I saw this live on TV and was shocked.

Peace

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When Pigs Fly ???
 

Multiple foul.

false double foul

???
 

These happen all the time.

B1 fouls A1. A1 doesn't take too kindly to B1 fouling him and shoves him. WHACK!

False double foul

Exactly
 

The reality is you do not call a false double foul, they happen as a result of continuous action. In other words you do go to the table and say you have a "false double foul," you administer them and most of them make total sense like this example given. A multiple foul you have to call because you are going to award a foul to two different players and then shoot FTs accordingly if appropriate. ;)

Peace

What is this multiple foul you speak of?

I am not sure, I have never seen one. I think I read it somewhere. :)

Peace

The captain requesting a match-up following a substitution of three or more by his opponents.

Don't make your self age so quickly. ;) It wasn't nearly that long ago...it was in 2008.

It was the boneheaded idea of Billy Gillespie to tell one of Kentucky's players to goaltend the FT. His desire was to force the score to be awarded instead of allowing the clock to start on the obvious deliberate miss that was going to occur....there was about 1 second left on the clock and the shooting team was already up by 2. The only problem was that he didn't know that the GT also came with a T in that case....as it should.

That description sounds eerily similar to the clip I posted earlier...oh wait....;):D

Falsies ...
 

4.19.9 SITUATION A: A1 leaps high and is fouled by B1 as he/she taps the ball
which subsequently goes through A’s basket. A1 fouls B2 in returning to the floor.
RULING: This is a false double foul. The foul by B1 does not cause the ball to
become dead. However, the player-control foul by A1 does cause the ball to
become dead and also dictates that no goal can be scored. Since the goal is not
scored, A1 is awarded two free throws for the foul by B1. No players are allowed
along the lane as Team B will be awarded the ball following the last free throw. If
the last throw is successful, the throw-in is from anywhere along the end line. If
the last throw is unsuccessful, the throw-in is from a designated spot nearest the
foul. (4-1; 4-11; 4-41-1; 6-7-7 Exception c: 6-7-4; 7-5-4a)

4.19.9 SITUATION B: B1 holds A1, whose team is in the bonus. A1 is successful
in both free-throw attempts. While B1 is making the throw-in from behind
the end line, A1 pushes B2 near midcourt. Team B is or is not in the bonus situation.
RULING: If Team B is in the bonus, B2 is either awarded a one-and-one and
the ball remains in play if either free-throw attempt touches the basket ring but is
not successful, or is awarded two free throws and the ball remains in play if the
second is unsuccessful. If the last free-throw attempt by B2 is successful, Team
A shall put the ball in play from out of bounds anywhere along the end line by B’s
basket. If Team B is not in the bonus, it is awarded the ball for a throw-in from a
designated spot out of bounds nearest to where the foul occurred. Penalties are
administered in the order in which the fouls occurred. (7-5-4a)

4.19.9 SITUATION C: A1 has a breakaway lay-up. B1 commits a hard foul
against A1 from behind and is called for an intentional foul. The Team A head
coach protests, feeling the foul should have been a flagrant foul and is assessed
a technical foul. RULING: Award A1's goal if successful. A1 shall receive two free
throws with the lane spaces cleared. Any Team B player is then awarded two free
throws for the technical foul. Team B will be awarded the ball for a throw-in at the
division line opposite the scorers table.

Well 2008 to me seems like 7 or 8 years ago to me personally. :D

A lot has gone on in my officiating life since then as well so it seems like it was a long time ago. I just know it happened, I was not exactly sure when but remember the play that APG referenced mainly because I use this clip in my class that I teach in the fall as the only example of a GT on a FT. I also thought the reason they moved the SEC Championship Tournament that year was because of Hurricane Katrina, because playing at that facility was certainly a last minute change if I remember correctly which happen in 2005 and why I said 7 or 8 years ago. I guess there was some other reason for the change.

Peace

Nope. Seen it. I actually had an intramural teammate request one when I was in college in the 80s. The poor guys on the game - fellow students - had no idea what he was talking about.

A buddy of mine had it happen in a JV game. Subbing coach threw a fit. A few games later, the coach saw the official at another game and showed him the rule book, pointing at the part that says the captain has to request it. Official, fighting all sorts of urges, reminds the coach that it was the captain who requested it.

This play was discussed in a couple camps this summer. SEC tournament got moved because of tornado damage.

Nba/nfhs
 

To go along with the opposing coach choosing the shooter of a injured player:

Had a fellow official a couple years back calling a VG game where the HC for home team was a new coach. Visitors PG is on top of the key and has the ball stolen by defender so she decides to try to steal it back quickly and commits a common foul. Home HC comes up screaming about a "clear path foul" and won't give up. My buddy speaks with him and notes that there is no such high school rule and that watching NBA for rules interpretations isn't recommended.

Do you remember the original site?

Peace

Georgia Dome

SEC tournament delayed as Georgia Dome sustains damage - Men's College Basketball - ESPN

I thought any electronic device used on the bench or coming over to bench personnel was strictly prohibited and ignoring a warning was a T?

Actually there's no warning in either code and it's any electronic transmission device. We just had a brain lock.

Also, my apologies on the rule citation. It's NCAA 10-4-2 (women)/10-6-2d (men) and NFHS 10-1-3. I've changed it in my OP.

Be careful with the iPad rulings. They vary all over the map.

NCAA-W says they are legal as long as they are not being used to communicate to/from the bench.. NCAA-M says they are not legal at all. IAABO says they are legal in HS for the same purpose...scoring only. They may not be used as "whiteboards" or anything else.

Eventually, the rulemakers will catch up with the technology. But NCAA 10-4-2 does not ban them outright. Take a look at AR 273, which specifically says that laptop computers are legal on the bench, as long as they are not being used for electronic communication. There was a memo sent to NCAA-W officials last year that expanded this ruling to include the iPad.

The only thing close to this are those middle school girls' games when both teams match-up after every single time-out or intermission. I just let it happen.

Matchup Rule ??? What Matchup Rule ???
 

Due to an editing error, this rule actually disappeared from the NFHS Rulebook for several years, I believe back in the early 1990's.

Back in the middle part of the twentieth century, these matchups were usually done at one of the three jump ball circles. Yes, back then we actually had three different jump ball circles, and we often had several jump balls in a game, and a lot more than several in a middle school girls game. I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along here shortly to confirm, or deny, my statements. Just a reminder to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., since the merger between Twitter, and The Official Forum, posts are limited to less than 140 characters.

The Digital Age ???
 

Sounds like the same interpretation that we used here in 100% IAABO Connecticut last season.

Colorado, an IAABO state, declared them off limits due to the understandable notion that it would be impossible to restrict their use in anyway once they're allowed on the bench.

Right, like the tableside official(s) would sneak a peek every once in a while to verify if the legal device is being used illegally by the coach :rolleyes:
Rabbit eyes? As if we dont have enough to do already.
I was very happy when they passed that ruling!

Which is why my car is still dirty. :(

I think my association banned it in my case because of this:

I told my assigner & interpreter the iPad was being used to track plays which would seem to fall into the 'coaching purposes" category.

Electronic devices on bench
 

There's a bit of an issue though with more schools getting set up for WiFi, that a tablet or laptop could be used for electronic communications.

For the iPad there are several apps available that are either whiteboard, statics, or both. There's even an app or two that turns the iPad into a scoreboard.

The Eagle Has Landed ...
 

Where have you been buddy?

The Future Is Now ...
 

We have a few schools, here in my little corner of Connecticut, who are considering this application. The scoreboard, and scorebook, would both be digital, and connected. A two point field goal for Red 32 gets "typed" into the digital scorebook, Red Team gets two points on the visible scoreboard. A foul on White 23 gets "typed" into the digital scorebook, White Team gets a a foul added to their team fouls on the visible scoreboard.

Our interpreter has been asked to review the logistics of this application to make sure that it complies with the NFHS rules.

One of the schools that wants to use this application lost a game last year due to an error involving the home scorebook and the visible scoreboard. Supposedly, this application would avoid this type of error.

As long as the iPad isn't being "typed into" from the bench, there's no relevant rule about it. I don't know of any rule that requires the scorebook be kept on paper.

A small city in a remote area was hosting a high calibre communitly college tournament a considerable number of years ago. Having no officials in that area capable of handling that level of ball, three other officals and I were flown there to handle the week end tournament.
They went big time there with a nice hospitality suite sponsored by the local brewer.

Saturday afternoon we work the semis which finish at about 6 o'clock and after eating supper we decide to go out on the town. One of the 4 says he does want to go because he wants to bone up on the rule book.

That individual and I have the finals the next afternoon. Hard fought game, with a point difference of about 4 points. I, the referee, check with scorer as game ends, she indicates all is well and I head for the dressing room which was phys ed teachers office looking out on the gym.
Thirsty as hell and wanting to hit that hospitality suite, I yank my shirt off and was ready to take a shower. All of a sudden I wonder where the other ref is and then hear some whistles.

Panicking I put my shirt on (inside out as someone kindly pointed out to me later) and go on the court to see whats happening. Well winning team was cutting net and the other ref was giving T's with each snip.

Fortunately I was able to go up to him and inform him that I had approved the score and nothing could be done.

Boy did those beers taste good.