one in four years
 

I botched my first backcourt call in over four years tonight.
Blue on offense, Black on defense. I am trail.
A player for blue beats his defender with the dribble at the top of the key. He reaches the free throw line and pulls up for a jumpshot. Just as he reaches the apex of his jump and prepares to release the shot, a second defender comes from the side and swats the ball from his hands. The ball goes behind the shooter's head and bounces on the floor near the top of the key. This defender for black continues in his path and is just about to scoop up the ball, when the original shooter spins around, dives backward, and bats the ball into the backcourt where a waiting teammate of his catches it.
Thinking that a shot was attempted and blocked, I let play continue. Shame on me.
Hopefully someone on the board will learn from this play. I know I did.

Re: one in four years
 

Why isn't this a shot?

I'm with Tony on this. Even though the shot never actually "took flight," I would think that a blocked shot attempt would satisfy the <b> intent </b> of the team control rule. Seems that team control would end on the blocked attempt. I wouldn't call this as a backcourt violation.

Z

Z, how could you say that there's no team control, when the ball is still clearly in his hands?

Re: Re: one in four years
 

It is a shot ("try"), but there's no loss of team control:

NCAA 4-13 (Def'n of "In-control---player, team")
Art. 3. Team control shall continue until the ball is in flight during a try for goal, an opponent secures control or the ball becomes dead.

Since the ball was swatted before the try, there's still team control, so the play described is a backcourt violation.

I wouldn't have gotten this right either! Thanks for sharing...

Hmmmmm...I don't have my fed book with me so I can only quote the NCAA rule now. I think I'm quoting everything that applies here.

(I see Lotto beat me to it! :) )


[Edited by Dan_ref on Jul 3rd, 2003 at 10:03 AM]

NF 4-12-3

Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.

No flight - no loss of team control.

THis one will go at least 3 pages!
 

Okay, it's on! Here we go!! :D

4-40-3
The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

4-12-3
Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

The try has started, the ball is swatted out of his hand, it's now in flight. When it's apparent the try has no chance to score, the try has ended. But team control has ended. This is a try that was slapped out of a shooter's hand, not a dribble that was slapped away by a defender. Team control has ended.

Your turn! ;)

I agree that wording "in flight," makes it appear as if there is still team control. However, I wonder about the <b>intent </b>of the rule. It would be interesting to see a case book play on that one. The try motion has obviously started and the ball is certainly in flight once it is swatted. :-) Where are the lawyers for Mike Price and Rick Neuheisel when you need them?

Z

Re: THis one will go at least 3 pages!
 

We need an emoticon for speechless, but let's try this:

4-66-1

A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score 2 or 3 points by throwing or tapping the ball into his or her basket.

Clearly the ball is in flight away from the shooter's own basket, in fact it is in flight towards his oppnent's basket, is it not? I request the court rule in my favor that this play does not meet the requirements as set forth and rule that team control has not ended.

Nothing further, your honor.

:)

Re: THis one will go at least 3 pages!
 

Casebook play 4.12COMMENT says there's no team control after the ball has left the hand on a try or tap for goal.It doesn't say HOW it leaves the hand,which is Tony's point.Also,casebook play 9.5.1 talks about a blocked shot.Using the same logic as 9.5.1,if B1 knocks the ball out of A1's hands on a shot,and A1 recovers it in the air and comes down,are you gonna call A1 for travelling? I'm not! I think that I'm going with Tony on this one(at least,until something else might get pointed out :D).

Re: Re: THis one will go at least 3 pages!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref
A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score 2 or 3 points by throwing or tapping the ball into his or her basket. Clearly the ball is in flight away from the shooter's own basket, in fact it is in flight towards his oppnent's basket, is it not? I request the court rule in my favor that this play does not meet the requirements as set forth and rule that team control has not ended. Nothing further, your honor.

Motion denied with force. Note that the words you quoted say that it is an <b> attempt </b> to score into <b> his or her </B> own basket. Even though the shot was swatted the other direction, this doesn't change the fact that the try attempt was made towards the shooter's own basket. :-)

Z

Re: Re: THis one will go at least 3 pages!
 

We need an emoticon for speechless, but let's try this:

[/B][/QUOTE]http://www.gifs.net/other/crit_suc.gif

Re: Re: THis one will go at least 3 pages!
 

As I recall those case plays under 9-5 refer to how a dribble ends for the purposes of determining travel, and 9.5.1 is one of those ways - am I right? If so then I'm not sure 9-5-1 can be extended to include what constitues loss of team control. Would you say A lost team control if B1 knocks the ball from A1's hands not during a try? I know, I know, you're gonna say it's different because A1 did start his try, then I'm gonna ask why & you're gonna say because. Got anything better?

Re: Re: Re: THis one will go at least 3 pages!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zebraman

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score 2 or 3 points by throwing or tapping the ball into his or her basket. Clearly the ball is in flight away from the shooter's own basket, in fact it is in flight towards his oppnent's basket, is it not? I request the court rule in my favor that this play does not meet the requirements as set forth and rule that team control has not ended. Nothing further, your honor. Motion denied with force. Note that the words you quoted say that it is an <b> attempt </b> to score into <b> his or her </B> own basket. Even though the shot was swatted the other direction, this doesn't change the fact that the try attempt was made towards the shooter's own basket. :-) Z

Ah...but your argument hinges on the fact that the try is in flight. I contend we only have a try if the ball is in flight towards the player's own basket. There is precedence for this in the case book.