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APG Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:29am

Swinging Elbow
 
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Using whatever rule set you work/comfortable with, what would you call? Excessive swinging of elbows violation, technical foul, no call?

PG_Ref Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:39am

NFHS - excessive swing violation, since there was no contact. The official appeared to be straightlined and could not tell there was no contact.

APG Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG_Ref (Post 847778)
NFHS - excessive swing violation, since there was no contact. The official appeared to be straightlined and could not tell there was no contact.

This is a correct call under NBA rules.

Adam Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:42am

I've got an elbow violation in hs rules. It's a perfect example.

I'm curious, is that a T in the NBA? It seems the official sees there's no contact but nails him for just swinging the elbows. Or is an NBA flagrant signaled with a T?

Adam Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:45am

And are those fans on the court? I know the Pepsi Center had an issue with that this year.

APG Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 847780)
I've got an elbow violation in hs rules. It's a perfect example.

I'm curious, is that a T in the NBA? It seems the official sees there's no contact but nails him for just swinging the elbows. Or is an NBA flagrant signaled with a T?

In the NBA, actions like the one above are considered to be taunts...as in, "you better back off, or I'm smacking you with an elbow just like the one I threw." A flagrant foul is indicated by a fist, then pointing to the free throw line extended.

johnny d Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:25pm

Since there isnt any contact, this is a clear swinging elbow violation in both hs and college. i dont know anything about nba rules, so i will take apg's word for it that a t is warranted.

JetMetFan Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 847782)
In the NBA, actions like the one above are considered to be taunts...as in, "you better back off, or I'm smacking you with an elbow just like the one I threw." A flagrant foul is indicated by a fist, then pointing to the free throw line extended.

The NBA also has this which could be applied as well. It's part of the list of technicals that can be called for conduct:

Quote:

A deliberately-thrown elbow or any attempted physical act with no contact involved.
NFHS and NCAA it's just a violation but in NCAA the officials would most likely go to the monitor - if they had one - to check for contact.

AKOFL Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:49pm

I think that is the nba ref that was at our camp this year. Great guy. Scott something last name escapes me right now. A violation in HS for sure. may had ea word with the player about that as well.

JRutledge Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 847798)
The NBA also has this which cuold be applied as well. It's part of the list of technicals that can be called for conduct:


NFHS and NCAA it's just a violation but in NCAA the officials would most likeley go to the monitor - if they had one - to check for contact.


Well this once was a technical foul previously until several years ago this changed because it was felt that it was not being called enough. I think this was a good call no matter the rules. Of course it is not a T other than the NBA.

Peace

APG Mon Jul 02, 2012 01:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKOFL (Post 847943)
I think that is the nba ref that was at our camp this year. Great guy. Scott something last name escapes me right now. A violation in HS for sure. may had ea word with the player about that as well.

Scott Twardoski

BillyMac Mon Jul 02, 2012 06:03am

You Could Be Swingin' On A Star ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 847944)
Well this once was a technical foul previously until several years ago this changed because it was felt that it was not being called enough.

I believe that excessive swinging of elbows (NFHS) has gone from a violation, to a technical foul, back to a violation? I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along shortly to confirm, or deny, my ancient interpretation. A reminder to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., per our merger with Twitter, posts must be 140 characters, or less.

AKOFL Mon Jul 02, 2012 08:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 847945)
Scott Twardoski

thats it. lol thanks apg:D

JetMetFan Mon Jul 02, 2012 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 847949)
I believe that excessive swinging of elbows (NFHS) has gone from a violation, to a technical foul, back to a violation? I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along shortly to confirm, or deny, my ancient interpretation. A reminder to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., per our merger with Twitter, posts must be 140 characters, or less.

You are correct, sir...

Quote:

2002-03 NFHS Basketball Rule Changes
9-13 New Changes the penalty for excessively swinging arms or elbow(s) to a violation (from a technical foul).

PENALTY CHANGED FOR EXCESS SWINGING OF ARM(S)/ELBOW(S) (9-13 NEW): The penalty for excess swinging of the arm(s) or elbow(s) has been changed back to a violation from a technical foul. The previous rule of a technical foul (changed in 1993-94) was very seldom called, as the penalty was very severe: two shots, the ball awarded to the opponent, the player charged with one technical, which also counts toward that player’s five for disqualification and the team foul count; all without any contact on the opponent. The primary purpose of penalizing these types of movements is to reduce the potential toward rough play. The committee hopes that by changing the infraction back to an enforceable and less severe penalty (a violation), the call will be made more frequently and will achieve the desired results. If a player makes contact with an opponent while excessively swinging the arm(s)/elbow(s), the official still has several options: a player control foul, an intentional foul or a flagrant foul. The specific call should be determined by the severity of the act and player intent (based on official’s judgment).

JRutledge Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 847949)
I believe that excessive swinging of elbows (NFHS) has gone from a violation, to a technical foul, back to a violation? I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along shortly to confirm, or deny, my ancient interpretation. A reminder to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., per our merger with Twitter, posts must be 140 characters, or less.

You are right and I did know that as well. Not many people do unless they have been around for 20 years or played during that time as well.

Peace


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