End of quarter/half mechanics

[jdccpa]

What are the proper mechanics to signal the end of a quarter or half? Is the trail official in addition to being responsible for the final shot to also signal the end of the period? (Assume two man mechanics.)

[ChuckElias]

Although a lot of people do it, there is no requirement that I know of for the official to signal the end of a period. The timer's horn causes the ball to be dead (unless a try for goal is released first). The official's whistle, then, is superfluous; and in fact, can lead participants to believe that a foul has occurred, which can just cause confusion.

If I've missed something in the manual, I'm sure others will let me know about it

[zebraman]

Chuck,

I have never seen reference to a period-ending whistle in the NFHS rule book or case book, but I have certainly never seen a whistle at the end of a period cause any confusion. Why would anyone think a foul was called since the official raises their open hand rather than a fist? Since many officials (especially where a shot clock is used) tell the players in the pre-game conference to "play the whistle, not the horn," a whistle to signal the end of a period is a good idea, IMHO. Besides, who hasn't had a game where the timer forgot to turn on the "automatic horn button" and the official's whistle is the only sound to signify the end of a period? As you stated, the ball remains live if a try for goal has been released so there may be more confusion if the horn goes off during the try and no whistle is blown to signify when the quarter really ended.

Z

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by zebraman
Since many officials (especially where a shot clock is used) tell the players in the pre-game conference to "play the whistle, not the horn," a whistle to signal the end of a period is a good idea, IMHO.

Why would an official tell the players this? The pre-game conference is for determining who are the team captains are, allowing them to introduce themselves to their opponents, and to make a sportsmanship statement. Why would anyone make such a comment?

Besides, who hasn't had a game where the timer forgot to turn on the "automatic horn button" and the official's whistle is the only sound to signify the end of a period? As you stated, the ball remains live if a try for goal has been released so there may be more confusion if the horn goes off during the try and no whistle is blown to signify when the quarter really ended.

I guess I've been fortunate. I don't ever remember having a horn not sound at the end of the period. If a shot is in the air when the horn sounds, if in position, I will whistle the play dead when it's apparent the shot is no good. Otherwise, I don't blow the whistle.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Why would an official tell the players this? The pre-game conference is for determining who are the team captains are, allowing them to introduce themselves to their opponents, and to make a sportsmanship statement. Why would anyone make such a comment?

Because high school players under shot clock rules (especially in the beginning of the season) often stop when the shot clock horn goes off, even if play is supposed to continue....yes, even at the varsity level. I prefer saying it in the pre-game conference rather than figuring out what to do when everyone stops playing (I remember a thread on this board about that a few months ago). While I like to keep the pre-game conference short, I don't have any "rules" for what can and cannot be said. A couple of our gyms are "non-standard" so we generally remind the captains of "ground rules" in those situations too which isn't on your list.

I guess I've been fortunate. I don't ever remember having a horn not sound at the end of the period.

Tony, you need to back to your roots and do some afternoon "C" team games once in a while. :-)

Z

[BktBallRef]

I just don't see where we should be doing anything like this. To me, it's no different than telling players, "Keep your hands to yourselves guys, 'cause we're going to call handchecking tonight." It's the coach's responsibility to teach his players these types of things. But that's just me.

Of course, I hear football coaches telling their players to play until the whistle sounds, which is a big no-no! But that's another story.

As far as "back to my roots," I still work rec league games from time to time.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Bueller? Bueller?
He's sick...My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy that knows this girl who's going with a guy who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious

I actually watched that movie and re-wound it over and over again to get this phrase. Hilarious to see it as a tag.

[JugglingReferee]

As for the topic,

I never blow my whistle at the end of a period, unless a try for goal is in progress. I've actually had players tell me that they sometimes do not hear the horn, but they do hear the whistle. (They told me because I asked them.)

The T has the last-second shot (as opposed to the second-last shot.... boo hiss... ) unless there is a fast-break and the L is 'right there'.

In addition, the R check that the book is in order, and the T grabs the ball and stands on the FT line of the team entitled to the ball under that APA.

I, as T, then bounce the ball to the L when she's taken care of the table, and proceed to the endline. Of course, with the warning horn in place to start a quarter, I suppose that an official must warn each team of the warning sound as play is about to resume.

Mike

[Kelvin green]

I generally blow the whistle and have been taught to...
There will be no guessing on what happens.
If the ball is still in shoooters hand, and horn goes off, you blow it and kill it and everyone knows ball was not away.

The horn remember if ball is in flight does not kill play, so kill the play... tells everyone that it's done...

It works for most guys I know

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


Since many officials (especially where a shot clock is used) tell the players in the pre-game conference to "play the whistle, not the horn," a whistle to signal the end of a period is a good idea, IMHO.

Do you tell the players you will call handchecking and "play the game with their feet" too?

Originally posted by zebraman

Besides, who hasn't had a game where the timer forgot to turn on the "automatic horn button" and the official's whistle is the only sound to signify the end of a period? As you stated, the ball remains live if a try for goal has been released so there may be more confusion if the horn goes off during the try and no whistle is blown to signify when the quarter really ended.

Z

Hasn't happen to me. But things that seem to happen to you, are major concerns in your life. But then again, they know how to play basketball where I am.

Peace

[zebraman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge AKA blowhard
Do you tell the players you will call handchecking and "play the game with their feet" too?

That line has already been used. Can't you think of something more original? Leave it to you to not be able to understand the difference between the two. Simple thoughts from simple minds. Aren't you the one that always says to do things the way they do them in your area? Of course, you say to do it even when the rulebook contradicts you so this sitch is a little different, but you never have let the facts stop you before so why start now? Everyone around here, even at the state tourney, has the trail blowing their whistle to signify the end of the half. It works well and has good reasoning behind it.

Z

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by zebraman
Originally posted by JRutledge AKA blowhard
Do you tell the players you will call handchecking and "play the game with their feet" too?
[/B]

Hmmmmm, what's the over/under on how long that post lasts before Brad scratches it? 18 hours? I take the under.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


That line has already been used. Can't you think of something more original?

I am just giving you crap, but I also knew that your over-sensitive behind was going to get upset as usual.

Originally posted by zebraman

Leave it to you to not be able to understand the difference between the two. Simple thoughts from simple minds.

Name calling again, what else should I expect from you?

Originally posted by zebraman

Aren't you the one that always says to do things the way they do them in your area?

I do not care what you do. If you want to give them a deep discussion about how you are going to call the game, then do that. I do not have to work with you, so if that is your deal, do it. Unlike yourself, I say knock yourself out. But you love to question my philosophy (we are just talking philosophy here) and tell me how much what I say affects your position, regardless of how far away we live from each other. But you seem to not be able to take it when it is thrown back at you.

Originally posted by zebraman

Of course, you say to do it even when the rulebook contradicts you so this sitch is a little different, but you never have let the facts stop you before so why start now?

That is why we call guys like you a "rulebook official." Because even when common sense is a factor, you want to call the multiple fouls, 3 second calls and calling Ts for players stepping one foot out of bounds to avoid a screen. Whatever is acceptable in your area, "knock yourself out."

Originally posted by zebraman

Everyone around here, even at the state tourney, has the trail blowing their whistle to signify the end of the half. It works well and has good reasoning behind it.

For your information, that is what you are suppose to do. But you are sooooo overly sensitve, you probably think I disagreed with you. I just found if funny that would tell the players, "stop on our whistle." That is about as funny as telling the players the same thing during our football coin toss meetings. These kids do not care about anything you tell them at that pregame meeting. So I just found it funny that you told them that. Just having a little fun, lighten up Z-man.

Peace

[zebraman]

multiple fouls, 3 second calls and calling Ts for players stepping one foot out of bounds to avoid a screen.

Huh? As usual, you are taking this post off on some other tangent. Having never called a multiple foul or a T for stepping out of bounds (and since this post has nothing to do with any of those), you can just head down that road by yourself as usual. Have a nice night.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Although a lot of people do it, there is no requirement that I know of for the official to signal the end of a period. The timer's horn causes the ball to be dead (unless a try for goal is released first). The official's whistle, then, is superfluous; and in fact, can lead participants to believe that a foul has occurred, which can just cause confusion.

If I've missed something in the manual, I'm sure others will let me know about it

You may be right, but I've heard three times today at camp that we NEED to blow the whistle, signal big and thus bring the game to a "completed close." This has been said in both two-person, and three-person. It's been said by three different groups of evals that the horn DOES NOT make the ball dead, there MUST be a whistle.