Defining a Harried Assignor

[hoopguy]

In my area, there is a basic rate of pay that most non high school games pay give or take $1. Every now and then I hear of or get approached to work for less money. I believe there could be a way to distinguish these leagues and tourneys that pay less money.

In my area, leagues and tourneys advertise saying ‘there will be 2 IAABO refs working all games’. I do not want to discuss the pros and cons of IAABO but the organizers ARE using this to promote their league or tourney. My proposal would be for the IAABO boards in my area to get together and agree that the IAABO rate for non high school games is XX and not allow any League or Tourney that pays less than XX dollars per game to promote using ‘there will be 2 IAABO refs working all games’. Obviously, anyone could still work the games but they would not be able to promote it with the ‘2 IAABO refs will be working’.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

In my area, there is a basic rate of pay that most non high school games pay give or take $1. Every now and then I hear of or get approached to work for less money. I believe there could be a way to distinguish these leagues and tourneys that pay less money.

In my area, leagues and tourneys advertise saying ‘there will be 2 IAABO refs working all games’. I do not want to discuss the pros and cons of IAABO but the organizers ARE using this to promote their league or tourney. My proposal would be for the IAABO boards in my area to get together and agree that the IAABO rate for non high school games is XX and not allow any League or Tourney that pays less than XX dollars per game to promote using ‘there will be 2 IAABO refs working all games’. Obviously, anyone could still work the games but they would not be able to promote it with the ‘2 IAABO refs will be working’.

If the two refs they get are actually IAABO, how can you stop them from stating so? I doubt that you can restrict an organization from stating the credentials of the officials on the game....particularly when you don't even own the IAABO brand.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

In my area, there is a basic rate of pay that most non high school games pay give or take $1. Every now and then I hear of or get approached to work for less money. I believe there could be a way to distinguish these leagues and tourneys that pay less money.

In my area, leagues and tourneys advertise saying ‘there will be 2 IAABO refs working all games’. I do not want to discuss the pros and cons of IAABO but the organizers ARE using this to promote their league or tourney. My proposal would be for the IAABO boards in my area to get together and agree that the IAABO rate for non high school games is XX and not allow any League or Tourney that pays less than XX dollars per game to promote using ‘there will be 2 IAABO refs working all games’. Obviously, anyone could still work the games but they would not be able to promote it with the ‘2 IAABO refs will be working’.

If the officials are IAABO officials, there's nothing the boards can do -- the advertising isn't false at all.

Had a guy ask me to help fill an 80 team tourney today. I sent an email. 90 miles away, paying 20 bucks a game. Good luck.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

If the officials are IAABO officials, there's nothing the boards can do -- the advertising isn't false at all.

Had a guy ask me to help fill an 80 team tourney today. I sent an email. 90 miles away, paying 20 bucks a game. Good luck.

Summer varsity-level stuff around here gets $14/game for three-whistles. It's not much, and I probably won't do a lot of it after the next couple of years.

There's no way I'm driving 90 miles, though; not for summer pay. Occasionally, I get asked to go 40-50 miles; too much gas, too much time, not worth it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Summer varsity-level stuff around here gets $14/game for three-whistles. It's not much, and I probably won't do a lot of it after the next couple of years.

There's no way I'm driving 90 miles, though; not for summer pay. Occasionally, I get asked to go 40-50 miles; too much gas, too much time, not worth it.

I'd work 3-person for $20 simply for the work. $14? Wow.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I'd work 3-person for $20 simply for the work. $14? Wow.

3-man is always an enticement to me, but I won't go under $20/game. It's not just the money, it's the type of environment and competition that comes with venues that can't/don't want to pay officials decent compensation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I'd work 3-person for $20 simply for the work. $14? Wow.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

3-man is always an enticement to me, but I won't go under $20/game. It's not just the money, it's the type of environment and competition that comes with venues that can't/don't want to pay officials decent compensation.

Unfortunately, that's the going rate for the good venues (school sanctioned summer leagues) around here. I'm essentially doing it for the work rather than the cash. I'm even doing some JV games (3 person) for $10, and those I'm doing strictly for the work (and face time), as the $20 or $30 really covers expenses (mileage and a beverage).

Several years ago, when I was on the other side of the state, I did one season of middle school ball because they paid $12.50 per game and I had to get off of work early to work them. Not worth it. Moved here, worked two seasons, had to take a year off (knee), and now I'm climbing back in. It's the price, it seems, around here.

It's not my world, I'm just living in it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Summer varsity-level stuff around here gets $14/game for three-whistles. It's not much, and I probably won't do a lot of it after the next couple of years.

That is a ripoff. That is not even minimum wage....and may not even cover the true cost to get to/from the game.

We get $25 for 2-person, JV or V. Typical summer set of 1 JV + 1 V, normal timing rules, $50 and usually stay within about 10 miles (1-way).

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

There's no way I'm driving 90 miles, though; not for summer pay. Occasionally, I get asked to go 40-50 miles; too much gas, too much time, not worth it.

For summer pay, even at $25/game, I would not go 90 miles round trip, and definitely not 90 miles each way unless the opportunity of the specific game made with compelling independent of the pay.

To go 90 miles round trip would cost about $10-15 in gas alone. If it is 90 miles each direction, it would, of course, be $20-30. That just doesn't make any financial sense unless you're going to work 4+ games (and I will not be working more than 3, ever....and typically limit myself to 2). Maybe if you carpooled with 2-3 others would it start making sense a little sooner.

And, If you count the real expense or driving, it would about $40-50 for 90mi. round trip. You'd have to work 2-3 games just to get out of the red....and even then, you'd only net about $10-20 (post travel expense and pre-tax) for 6-7 hours of time and effort (3 driving, 3-4 working, plus whatever you need to add to count for arriving before the game time). $2-3/hour is not exactly compelling.

Too many people gloss over the real expense of travel and only count the cost of the gas. Gas is less than half the expense of travel. You have to count the cost of the car itself along with typical maintenance and repairs. Those will add up to more than the gas over the life of a car....even at today's gas prices. You just don't have to pay all of it on the day of the game.

[BballRookie]

I was thinking about this very thing over the last few weeks. We've had a torrent of summer ball weekends and I never leave feeling the pay is that great. I need to work for the experience. But, I can see how the more experienced guys will walk.

Here is a question: How hard is it to pull all the area officials together and form a union of sorts to ask for higher game fees? I'm not a union person as a rule(another talk for another day), but in our area literally 3 assigners could bring the entire basketball officiating world to a standstill. 25 bucks is high for a summer league game. 35 for junior high, 40 frosh/jv, 55 varsity. Why not say that NO summer league games can ever be done for less than 30? Will this break the tournaments?

This is thinking without knowing how the relationship between assigner and schools work, how often fees are approached, how hard it is to keep guys from breaking the line, etc. I don't know those things, but it just hurts me to think of the "true cost" of officiating once gas, car expenses, time, etc. are factored into things.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BballRookie

I was thinking about this very thing over the last few weeks. We've had a torrent of summer ball weekends and I never leave feeling the pay is that great. I need to work for the experience. But, I can see how the more experienced guys will walk.

Here is a question: How hard is it to pull all the area officials together and form a union of sorts to ask for higher game fees? I'm not a union person as a rule(another talk for another day), but in our area literally 3 assigners could bring the entire basketball officiating world to a standstill. 25 bucks is high for a summer league game. 35 for junior high, 40 frosh/jv, 55 varsity. Why not say that NO summer league games can ever be done for less than 30? Will this break the tournaments?

This is thinking without knowing how the relationship between assigner and schools work, how often fees are approached, how hard it is to keep guys from breaking the line, etc. I don't know those things, but it just hurts me to think of the "true cost" of officiating once gas, car expenses, time, etc. are factored into things.

Been fighting that battle here in regards to AAU. Sometimes you are working a regulation game with a 2-man crew for $23/game. I work when I choose and no more than 3 games. I do it strictly to prepare for camp or to just to get on the court. They built an AAU complex 4 years ago and didn't even have the decency to build locker rooms. Originally we were told that we could utilize the bathrooms (which the players still do) but we did put our collective foot down about that on the very first weekend it opened. We were given 2 adjacent rooms and some chairs. But if there is a camp in town those rooms get very crowded.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BballRookie

I was thinking about this very thing over the last few weeks. We've had a torrent of summer ball weekends and I never leave feeling the pay is that great. I need to work for the experience. But, I can see how the more experienced guys will walk.

Here is a question: How hard is it to pull all the area officials together and form a union of sorts to ask for higher game fees? I'm not a union person as a rule(another talk for another day), but in our area literally 3 assigners could bring the entire basketball officiating world to a standstill. 25 bucks is high for a summer league game. 35 for junior high, 40 frosh/jv, 55 varsity. Why not say that NO summer league games can ever be done for less than 30? Will this break the tournaments?

This is thinking without knowing how the relationship between assigner and schools work, how often fees are approached, how hard it is to keep guys from breaking the line, etc. I don't know those things, but it just hurts me to think of the "true cost" of officiating once gas, car expenses, time, etc. are factored into things.

BBRook, take a look at my post on pg 1 of the thread. Organizing is the only way the fees can come up. I realize my area (NYC-Metro) is way above the norm but it got that way because organizations stood their ground. Basically, if you think you're worth $15/game that's what you're going to get. If you think you're worth $40/game, that's what you'll get...though it will be a hard fight to get there.

Sure, there are going to be rogue groups who'll work for anything but what we've found is, for the most part, they're not trained well and the product shows.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's not just the money, it's the type of environment and competition that comes with venues that can't/don't want to pay officials decent compensation.

That's another huge consideration. If you don't care enough about your product to pay the officials a decent wage, where else are you cutting corners? Security, perhaps? It all factors into the equation, as well as the wear and tear on our bodies, vehicles, etc.

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

If the officials are IAABO officials, there's nothing the boards can do -- the advertising isn't false at all.

I disagree. We live in an era when Best Buy's big screen TV spots before Super Bowl weekend refer to "the big game" because they'll get sued for saying "watch the Super Bowl on your new TV" even though the Super Bowl is what they'll watch.

The hucksters canot use IAABO or any the name of any other officials organization to promote their get-rich-quick scheme without the permission of the organization, and the national can delegate the authority to grant permission to local boards.

That said, a lot of these AAU operators use the phrase "patched officials."

Perhaps Dicky Lee is working the game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

I disagree. We live in an era when Best Buy's big screen TV spots before Super Bowl weekend refer to "the big game" because they'll get sued for saying "watch the Super Bowl on your new TV" even though the Super Bowl is what they'll watch.

The hucksters canot use IAABO or any the name of any other officials organization to promote their get-rich-quick scheme without the permission of the organization, and the national can delegate the authority to grant permission to local boards.

That said, a lot of these AAU operators use the phrase "patched officials."

Perhaps Dicky Lee is working the game.

It is a certification and training organization for officials, not a product like the Super Bowl. The only way you can keep someone from using it in the context of the qualifications of the officials working their event is to keep your officials themselves from using it for all events they participate in. And that would essentially make the existence of the organization irrelevant. The officials are either IAABO certified or not.

[ref3808]

$30-$35 per game in the New England area and usually the drive is less than an hour. No complaints I guess after seeing the comps.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by ref3808

$30-$35 per game in the New England area and usually the drive is less than an hour. No complaints I guess after seeing the comps.

I'm in New England too, and after reading this thread, we definitely have no room to complain if people are legitimately doing 2-whistle AAU (or similar) games for $20 ... or less!

I've done AAU just about every weekend since March (in Mass. and Conn.) and most of the tourneys in Conn. (from Hartford north, anyway) are gobbled up by the same assignor. He pays $28 -- by check.

In Mass., there are several tournaments that are $35 cash up front before you ever throw the ball up (the rest are $30 -- never less), so we sometimes moan about the $28-by-check scenario.

Never knew how good we had it.

One local program pays $25 cash just to come to their gym and officiate scrimmages w/o a book, so you don't even have to report fouls.

I'm sorry to hear of the plight of brother officials from other areas of the country.