The Official Forum - H.S. Rule talking about referee jurisdiction to award technicals after clock runs

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 845191)

Still trying to figure out how an official's whistle after the play would have prevented the injuries or crying? :confused:

I see crying all the time when kids think there should have been a whistle. It's normally accompanied by coach's whining, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 845191)

Still trying to figure out how an official's whistle after the play would have prevented the injuries or crying? :confused:

I saw a kid cry one time because the opponent was playing defense on him. Kids cry when they don't play too, so it has nothing to do with anything an official does and stupid people like this guy actually think it somehow is a correlation. Heck if the kids played on a tile floor, I am sure anytime they fell they were crying too. ;)

Peace

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 845193)

He needs to get hired by Ginoboli and Parker.

Check out his firm's website: Coral Springs Injury Lawyer - Fort Lauderdale Accident Attorney - Pembroke Pines Personal Injury Lawyer

MTD, Sr.

P.S. And did I mention he was a Flordia Super Lawyer in 2010 and 2-11.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 845153)

Furthermore, a whistle IS NOT required every time a kid falls down or gets hurt!! If the kids dont like contact... GO PLAY TABLE TENNIS!

"Somebodys gonna get hurt" is one of the most stupid comments of All-Time.
The fact of the matter is, we blow our whistle AFTER contact that results in adv/dis. We dont blow just BEFORE an injury may occur & pause the action.

+1

That should make logical sense...even to a lawyer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 845199)

+1

That should make logical sense...even to a lawyer.

That depends if they are the Plaintiff or Defense attorney. :)

Peace

How much you want to bet that the back row in that picture find him totally repulsive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 845185)

If you have complaints about the officiating, you need to take it up with the league director rather than the officials directly.

There it is, Coach.

You made the wrong choices in how you handled your objections. (BNR had the perfect analogy in going into a judge's chambers.) Had you walked off the court, found a game supervisor (be it right then or later), and expressed your viewpoints to him/her, there's no way you could have earned a technical foul and extended the game. The officials on the court don't care how many times you have been T'd up or tossed in the past; it's all about your behavior within their jurisdiction at that time.

Incidentally, the "rule itself" are indeed the rules that were cited to you. My best suggestion is for you to learn from this experience (we're all never too old to learn), and arrange for another volunteer coach -- for the kids' sake.

Dear DMAN:

First, let me thank you for creating the most entertaining thread I have read on this discussion board since...I can't remember when.

Second, I believe you got the answer to your question about the officials jurisdiction. Are you still considering approaching the board about your suspension? I think, as my peers have so eloquently pointed out, you would be well advised to serve your suspension and just let it go. Maybe consider being a good sport here, instead of a lawyer.

Third, who are the women standing behind you on your web page and why are they there?

And last..I also live in Florida. What's a Super Lawyer? Seems like an oxymoron.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dman (Post 845144)

I’m Assisting my oldest son coaching my youngest son’s playoff game last night. Never got tossed in my life, coached 50 different rec teams. Got maybe 4 techs over 500 plus games before this for pointing out 'no calls'.

In first couple minutes, it’s like a football game out there (6th graders in rec), so we both complain ‘pretty strongly’ and get ‘T’d up.

Tonight is the final playoff game, and we have no coach and here’s why.

After the game was over, referees were sitting at scorers table waiting for game next game to ref. Teams had shaken hands and gone off to their respective corners

I walked up to one after the game, simply told him that it was the worst refereed game I’d been a part of for 15 years (8 injury timeouts had to be called because players were falling down getting injured and several crying! because of “no calls”). Game over, we won OT 37-35.They were sitting at the scorers table waiting for the next game to start.

Full five minutes after game is over, Ref T’s me again, results in next game suspension (and two free throws five minutes after game over for other team, which thankfully they miss).—and my son is not available to coach tonites championship playoff game, flying to Atlanta.

Anyway, if anyway has a copy of these rules, I’d appreciate you forwarding to me asap only at [email protected] as the board is considering whether to revoke the tech and suspension because the ref may not have had JURISDICTION once game was over and they were off of the court. I just physically need the rules, and I can’t find the rules anywhere on the internet.

Sorry to bother, but if I have the high school rules, which govern in Florida, that may help—so if you know anyone who has a copy and will provide and scan those specific rules, much appreciated.

These are the rule numbers that were cited by them, but not the rule itself:

Rule 2.2 article 4 with respect to officials jurisdiction. Page 15.

Rule 10-4 bench technical. Article 1a. Page 62.

Page 72 technical foul penalty summary. See Assistant Coach and Head Coach at bottom two grids of chart.

Anybody who has copies, please provide to me at [email protected]

Thanks for any help!!

Yes, the officials were 100% correct in assessing a technical foul and ejecting you. An official's jurisdiction does not end until the entire officiating crew has left the visual confines of the gymnasium. Whether it's making a correction to the score book or assessing a technical foul to a coach of player, the officials are within the rules.

NFHS 2-2-4
The jurisdiction of the officials' is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Three examples, with the first one applying to you.

2.2.4 SITUATION A: The score is Team A-62 and Team B-61 when the horn sounds to end the fourth quarter. Prior to the referee's approval of the final score, the coach of Team A directs obscene gestures at the officials.
RULING: A technical foul is charged and the result of the free throws will determine which team wins or whether an extra period is required. (5-6-2 Exception 4; 10-4-1c)

2.2.4 SITUATION B: The final horn sounds to end the game with a score of 64-61. Immediately following the horn to end the fourth quarter, the officials are moving off the court toward a door to their dressing room. The referee enters the door and is in the hallway to the locker room, but the umpire is still in the court area when he/she notices the scorer frantically trying to get the officials' attention due to a possible scorebook error. RULING: Since one of the officials has not left the visual confines of the playing area, the game jurisdiction has not ended. The officials may work with scorer's table personnel to rectify any errors.

2.2.4 SITUATION C: Team B leads by a point with seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1 releases the ball on a try, but the noise level makes it difficult for the covering official (umpire) to hear the horn. The umpire signals a successful goal. The referee definitely hears the horn before A1 releases the ball, but does not realize the umpire counted the goal. The officials leave the visual confines of the playing area and are not aware of the controversy until the scorer comes to the officials' dressing room.
RULING: Even though the referee could have canceled the score if the officials had conferred before leaving, once the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area, the final score is official and no change can be made. In situations such as this, it is imperative that officials communicate with each other and that they do not leave until any problem regarding scoring or timing has been resolved.

On a personal note, I too would have assessed the technical and ejected you from the game. You have no business approaching officials after a game. Also, you have no business addressing officials during the game. Assistant coaches are to be seen and not heard. Watch the Heat-Celtics tonight. You will see the head coaches addressing the officials, not assistants.

You have no one to blame but yourself for your son's team not having a coach tonight. You thought you'd be a big man and get your shots in after the game was over. Coaches like you are exactly why this rule exists. I hope you learned a lesson.

Here's wondering whether you will share this rule and these case plays since I'm sure you wan to coach. Man up and do the right thing. No matter how bad you think they were, you were wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 845195)

He needs to get hired by Ginoboli and Parker.

As a die hard Spurs fan that hurt !!!!!

Hot, Yes, Single ???, Moms ???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 845210)

Who are the women standing behind you on your web page?

Bad Zebra: I believe that you are confusing The Official Forum with Match.com.

Coach, I guess it never crossed your mind that these officials were quite certain of their authority to assess the second technical. Apparently they are continuing to show you their knowledge of the rules well after the game and into the next few days.

Take this for the lesson that it is and show a bit more respect for the officials at the next game. Or at least at the next game for which, by rule, you will be allowed on the bench.

Frankly if I find out who these officials were I plan to send them a gift certificate to Morton's with my compliments.

Barring a Miami loss tonight, this may be the best entertainment of the evening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dman (Post 845144)

Part of me thinks this has to be a gag post because I can't believe a non-official would post something on an officiating forum that says he harassed a crew during and after a game (when it still had jurisdiction) and wants to know what the crew did wrong.

If it's a real post: sir, you may not have noticed but 6th graders fall down when the wind blows too hard. If you've coached as long as you say you must know by now that not all contact is a foul. It even says as much in the rule book.

6th graders also cry. Heck, I had a girls' H.S. JV city seminfinal game this year where a player started crying because she had her shot blocked three times in a row.

To echo my officiating brethren: take your punishment and find the kids a coach so they can play their game. After all, it's about them.

C is always the right anwer

The only way you dont lose this appeal is if

A. you dont give the league the rules you learned today in this forum

B. there are special for your league that override the NFHS book in regards to jurisdiction

C. Jeff van Gundy is league commisioner