interesting situation

[stubba]

In a camp tournament game last night the offensive team got called for a rebounding foul. Because they were over the limit they went to the other end of the floor to shoot free throws. In this continous clock game they only shot one free throw for two points. One of the officials became distracted on the way to the other end of the floor and ended up staying on the far end wiping up some sweat left on the floor. His partner did not notice and gave the ball to the player at the free throw line. The player shot and made the free throw. The team took ball through net and inbounded to resume play. At this time the official who was left at the other end of the court blew his whistle and informed everyone he was not ready and that the free throw did not count and must be shot again. He then threw the coach out of the game for rather mildly questioning why the free throws did not count. The coach thought the play should simply resume with team taking ball out under basket after made free throw.

I guess if this had not been a summer camp tournament game there would not have been much chance of the other official putting the ball in play before checking if his partner was ready.

My question really concerns whether those with officiating experience feel that the made free throw should have been cancelled under the circumstances. Is there any guidance available for these typoe of situations ???

thanks for help

[Mark Padgett]

Even in a summer league game, I don't see where the official could justify cancelling the play. It is true that his partner should wait until he is ready, but there is no rule I know of that says if he's not, and the partner resumes play anyway that the play doesn't count.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by stubba


I guess if this had not been a summer camp tournament game there would not have been much chance of the other official putting the ball in play before checking if his partner was ready.

Lack of concentration happens during the regular season, it sounds to me that is what happen here.

Originally posted by stubba

My question really concerns whether those with officiating experience feel that the made free throw should have been cancelled under the circumstances. Is there any guidance available for these typoe of situations ???

Well I do not think I would have tried to wave everything off in this sitaution. This is summer league and I would have used some common sense here to keep things moving. But the official that was not ready should have stopped everything before it got started. If he was not ready or something else need to be taken care of, he should have just blown his whistle and stopped play all together. But the official administering the FT, should have not done anything until his partner was ready as well.

But this is summer league and strange things happen and strange rules can confuse everyone. So I would not worry about it one way or another, because all the "real factors" are not at play.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by stubba
My question really concerns whether those with officiating experience feel that the made free throw should have been cancelled under the circumstances. Is there any guidance available for these typoe of situations ???

thanks for help

stubba,
Count the throw.
...then wait for partner.
mick

[cheefwiggums]

A similar play came up in a men's league game last wednesday, however, with slight difference. . . the offensive player pushed off while the shot was in the air. i called the push. it was the 7th team foul. . . we went down and the defensive team shot the bonus. now my question is: a)is the offensive team said to be "in control" while the shot is in the air? if so, i made the right call and we go down the other end and shoot the bonus, right? if the offensive team is NOT "in control" while the ball is in flight, then there would be no bonus 1 and 1 and i messed up. . . please shed some light. . . we play hybrid of NBA and NCAA rules in the league. . . i'll take my answer off the air. . . peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by cheefwiggums
A similar play came up in a men's league game last wednesday, however, with slight difference. . . the offensive player pushed off while the shot was in the air. i called the push. it was the 7th team foul. . . we went down and the defensive team shot the bonus. now my question is: a)is the offensive team said to be "in control" while the shot is in the air? if so, i made the right call and we go down the other end and shoot the bonus, right? if the offensive team is NOT "in control" while the ball is in flight, then there would be no bonus 1 and 1 and i messed up. . . please shed some light. . . we play hybrid of NBA and NCAA rules in the league. . . i'll take my answer off the air. . . peace

For NCAA rules, you messed up. See when team control ends in rule 4. If a NFHS game you would have been right.
PS It is the same reason that I messed up the backcourt play in the other thread.

[Hawks Coach]

Stubba
Your partner sounds like a real jerk to me if he cancelled points because he wasn't ready and then tossed a coach for mildly questioning it. Was this a second T? Or did he just hand out an ejection to accompany his other awful call?

Seems like both of you initially had a lack of awareness (it happens), and your partner decided to compound the problem by making up rules and defending them with his power to eject. Yuck! Summer game or no, not a good situation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

For NCAA rules, you messed up. See when team control ends in rule 4.

Why did he mess this up for NCAA rules? I think he got it right for the wrong reasons (no team control, no team-control foul, shoot the FTs).

(I'm assuming, of course, that the foul call was a "good" one and the push couldn't be ignored).

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Why did he mess this up for NCAA rules? I think he got it right for the wrong reasons (no team control, no team-control foul, shoot the FTs).

(I'm assuming, of course, that the foul call was a "good" one and the push couldn't be ignored).

What he said

[Damian]

I have done some summer leagues with running clock and there is alway the pressure to keep moving while the clock is running. Your partner was right to clean the floor to avoid a dangerous situation. However, he should have told the time keeper to stop.

That said, you probably could have stopped it it there had been some eye contact between you.

but to answer your question, you were administering the free throw and it should have stood. As far as the T, that could go either way.

[RefSouthAlb]

Where in any part of this situation did the 2 refs get together to discuss what just happened??

BE aware of where your partner is at all times, eye contact.

In the abscence of this, get together to discuss what has just happened.

All this may have been avoided if a meeting of the minds was had.

Peace!!

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

What he said

I just reread your post and I now understand why I gave the incorrect answer. Of course, Dan and Bob are correct. There is no team control while a try is in flight and you certainly should go to the other end and shoot one and one.

However, you wrote "a)is the offensive team said to be "in control" while the shot is in the air? if so, i made the right call and we go down the other end and shoot the bonus, right? if the offensive team is NOT "in control" while the ball is in flight, then there would be no bonus 1 and 1 and i messed up." You have this exactly backwards!!!!!!
NO Control means there IS a bonus AND if there is team control then there is NO bonus under NCAA rules.

Hopefully, Bob and Dan will understand my confusion and forgive me.
I am going to go administer self-flagellation now.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Jul 12th, 2003 at 06:09 AM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
[/B]

I am going to go administer self-flagellation now.

[/B][/QUOTE]Not for too long. You'll go blind!