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-   -   I've got another ref question that I'm not sure is in the rulebook or not... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/91213-ive-got-another-ref-question-im-not-sure-rulebook-not.html)

DiscoHristo Wed May 16, 2012 09:34am

I've got another ref question that I'm not sure is in the rulebook or not...
 
Is there any type of rule stating anything about a player yelling when another player is in process of taking a shot? as if saying "heyyyyyyyyyy" when they attempt the shot? maybe it's just bad sportsmanship???

Or is there any rule in the book stating anything about when a player is attempting a shot, and the defender runs at that player's legs, but never touches them? i've seen refs warn players for this, but i'm not sure what the warning is for? the player is not touching them, but may look like he's about to take the shooter's legs out from under him... or is it a sportsmanship call?

APG Wed May 16, 2012 09:42am

Short of the player yelling something unsporting, no there's nothing wrong with that tactic. And no there's nothing wrong with a player running at a player's leg without making contact.

Toren Wed May 16, 2012 10:00am

To add a bit to APG's answer

On a free throw, yelling during the shot can be judged as disconcertion. This is a violation that would give the shooter a replacement free throw if the original shot misses.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed May 16, 2012 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toren (Post 842099)
To add a bit to APG's answer

On a free throw, yelling during the shot can be judged as disconcertion. This is a violation that would give the shooter a replacement free throw if the original shot misses.



Yelling, by an opponent, during a free throw attempt IS disconcertion.

MTD, Sr.

ref3808 Wed May 16, 2012 03:43pm

As described, I have disconcertion.

As for "running at the legs" I suppose you could go with a technical for unsportsmanlike conduct, but it's a real stretch.

DiscoHristo Wed May 16, 2012 03:46pm

thanks.. all great answers

tref Wed May 16, 2012 03:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref3808 (Post 842153)
As for "running at the legs" I suppose you could go with a technical for unsportsmanlike conduct, but it's a real stretch.

I'd like to see that & I would LOVE to hear the explaination to the coach!

rockyroad Wed May 16, 2012 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref3808 (Post 842153)
As described, I have disconcertion.

As described in the original post? Or as described in the responses that narrowed "shot" down to "free throw"?

If you are saying you are going to call disconcertion on a shot, what is your rule basis?

tref Wed May 16, 2012 04:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 842158)
As described in the original post? Or as described in the responses that narrowed "shot" down to "free throw"?

If you are saying you are going to call disconcertion on a shot, what is your rule basis?

Rule 11 of course, the same rule used to stick a defender for running at a shooters legs, minus any contact :)

rockyroad Wed May 16, 2012 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 842159)
Rule 11 of course, the same rule used to stick a defender for running at a shooters legs, minus any contact :)

Kinda scary, isn't it?!!?:eek:

BillyMac Wed May 16, 2012 04:33pm

Been There, Thought That ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscoHristo (Post 842094)
Is there any type of rule stating anything about a player yelling when another player is in process of taking a shot?

I hate it when players do this. I believe that it's unsporting, but I have yet to find a casebook play, or an official, including myself, who would charge an unsporting technical foul on such a play. Similar situation with the, "Ball. Ball. Ball.", or "Dead. Dead. Dead.", chant that many of us hear in our games, usually, for whatever reason, girls games.

A few years ago in a scrimmage, I did warn a player who was defending the inbounder yelling, with a rapid cadence, "One. Two. Three ...". His coach asked me about it. I told the coach that I believed that the yelling was unsporting because it was trying to influence my "real" count. The coach accepted that, which kind of surprised me. I thought that he would come back at me with something like, "I've never seen that call before.", or "I've never seen that in a rulebook". He just told his player to, "Cut it out". I wish that all my conversations with coaches went as smoothly as that one, especially since I pulled the "counting" interpretation out of my a**, and really didn't have anything to back me up.

Adam Wed May 16, 2012 06:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 842162)
I hate it when players do this. I believe that it's unsporting, but I have yet to find a casebook play, or an official, including myself, who would charge an unsporting technical foul on such a play. Similar situation with the, "Ball. Ball. Ball.", or "Dead. Dead. Dead.", chant that many of us hear in our games, usually, for whatever reason, girls games.

A few years ago in a scrimmage, I did warn a player who was defending the inbounder yelling, with a rapid cadence, "One. Two. Three ...". His coach asked me about it. I told the coach that I believed that the yelling was unsporting because it was trying to influence my "real" count. The coach accepted that, which kind of surprised me. I thought that he would come back at me with something like, "I've never seen that call before.", or "I've never seen that in a rulebook". He just told his player to, "Cut it out". I wish that all my conversations with coaches went as smoothly as that one, especially since I pulled the "counting" interpretation out of my a**, and really didn't have anything to back me up.

There's no way I'm letting a defender count out loud. It's unsporting, deceptive, and an attempt to influence the officials' decision. Pick a reason.

tref Wed May 16, 2012 06:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 842175)
There's no way I'm letting a defender count out loud. It's unsporting, deceptive, and an attempt to influence the officials' decision. Pick a reason.

We do have options on that act don't we.

billyu2 Wed May 16, 2012 09:27pm

Not unsporting?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 842157)
I'd like to see that & I would LOVE to hear the explaination to the coach!

Well, I had a situation several years ago where a defender occasionally would lower his head and fake as if to head-butt the airborne shooter in the groin sometimes causing the shooter to alter his shot. I told the player I considered that unsportsmanlike and it would be a T if done again. The head coach protested there is nothing in the rules prohibiting a player from doing that. I replied the action is clearly unsportsmanlike and any coach who teaches or allows his players to do that shouldn't be coaching. End of discussion and end of that tactic. I don't know if "running at the legs" is the same thing but it certainly isn't what most coaches would teach their players to do.

tref Wed May 16, 2012 11:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyu2 (Post 842191)
Well, I had a situation several years ago where a defender occasionally would lower his head and fake as if to head-butt the airborne shooter in the groin sometimes causing the shooter to alter his shot. I told the player I considered that unsportsmanlike and it would be a T if done again. The head coach protested there is nothing in the rules prohibiting a player from doing that. I replied the action is clearly unsportsmanlike and any coach who teaches or allows his players to do that shouldn't be coaching. End of discussion and end of that tactic. I don't know if "running at the legs" is the same thing but it certainly isn't what most coaches would teach their players to do.

I like the call in your situation & how you handled it!

This situation is when a defender too late to defend the try so they run at the shooter & generally keep running down the court for a quick outlet if the try in unsuccessful. I'm sure you've seen it :D


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