Hit AGAIN
 

So, I'm working some wimmens wreck (win or go home games) last night. Toward the end of my 2nd game when the loss was apparent, a player on the losing team is whining for a foul. I let her vent all the way back on defense. She commits a frustration foul, I call the obvious play. As I'm reporting I hear the F bomb & BS... before I can get my whistle back in mouth she slams the ball to the rafters. I went Darell Garretson on her, "Whack, GET OUT!"
A couple trips up & down, shes still on the bench. I tell the table crew she has been ejected, she leaves or its a forfeit.
She's asking them to see a rulebook & cant believe I ejected her for the F bomb.
I call the game, turn towards the table area, take two step toward my chair & BOOM I'm beamed in the head extremely hard by the basketball.
Judging by the accuracy & velocity of the hit I just knew it was one of the mouthy boyfriends that threw the ball. I make a b-line toward their bench area & my partner says it was the player that threw a two-handed overhead ball at me :eek:
I tell her she gets a pass only because shes a female!

This is my 2nd post game altercation in about 10 years of refereeing... yeah, both happened in the off-season.

I thought I learned my lesson after the first altercation. WRONG!
Although I had been very cognizant of my surroundings during post game, I underestimated last nights situation for the mere fact that it was a female.

Moving forward, I dont care if its a male or female, adult or child, real season or off season, I have got to keep my eyes on all players at all times!

Reading the June issue of Referee Magazine page 60 makes want to do the right thing & press charges. But on a female??? C'Mon Man!

Thoughts???

file charges

Yes, keep an eye on all of 'em. Male or female, young or old.

As for pressing charges, you have to ask yourself: Are/were you injured? Did you feel your safety was threatened in an ongoing manner (beyond the frustrated outburst)? If you don't call her on this behavior, are you liable to be setting up the next official to be injured or incapacitated? And, as you intimate, do you want to be the next guy featured in a beer commercial for a supposedly unmanly moment?

From your description, it seems the answers are no, no, no and no. But you need to draw your own conclusions. I wouldn't let the male/female thing be the deciding factor. Some of our worst experiences come from women's (and girls') games. They don't get a free pass.

But if you get three no's above to start, then a fourth one might be the route you want to go. If you get one yes, that's all it takes to change the picture.

I've never been one for pressing charges, I think this country is over litigated as it is. But I certainly would have had the supervisor call the cops last night and if the state or whoever wanted to file charges, I would have given them all information they wanted.


On a side note, you need to learn to bob and weave :rolleyes:

I agree and disagree!
 

I agree with the general statement that we are an over litigious society. However, I reserve that statement for frivolous civil law suits not criminal matters. This type of stuff will continue to happen until we as officials say enough and press charges.

No I wasnt injured & I didnt feel my safety was threatened, but does that mean she gets away with her actions of physically touching an official because those factors are missing???

I'm not big on money hungry people filing law suits either, but pressing criminal charges is not a cry for money.

The article in RM says its more about sending a message that we're not going to just take it anymore.

I don't think I would be filing charges, but I certainly would be talking to whoever runs the league - the city or county or whoever - about their liability if this woman is allowed to continue playing and hurts another official. A lifetime ban from all rec league activities run by that city/county is certainly warranted in this case.

File charges so this doesn't happen to another official later on down the line (by her or someone else in the gym). It sends a clear message, it isn't appropriate.

-Josh

I hear you...so if you feel you need to send a message, then do that.

I certainly would thank you for it.

What kind of support did you get from the site supervisor? Isn't it there job to contact the police and file the charges? Seems to me, you would have just given a statement of what happened and your partner too.

In my experiences gym supervisors are more concerned with pacifying the players as their main objective is getting them to sign up for the next league.
As a matter of fact, this is the 3rd time I ejected a player at this particular City of Denver facility over the past 2 years & the table/supervisor neglected to get the player out of the gym.

IDK what their job is...

So you had no idea who threw the ball...and you wrongly assumed it was a boyfriend. Then...you let a player get away with that act because "she's a female."

And now you wonder about pressing charges?

You really need to adjust your thinking. Your condescending attitude toward women's basketball comes through loud and clear.

I would deal with this within the league...not with outside police/court authority. If the league has no provision in place to punish conduct, then it needs to have one. And this would be a good place to start: an immediate suspension from all league activity for the rest of this season.

If this were a high school game in Massachusetts, the player would be suspended from all sports activity for one year (not just the sport in which the assault occurred.) If this were a men's league in which I worked, the player would be gone for the season.

Would you prefer that I socked the big girl up as I would if it were a dude??
So you're a wimmens official? If so, I didnt mean to offend you & what you do.
But no, I do not love that brand of basketball & its within my rights not to!

Since it was win or go home, it was the rest of the season :rolleyes:

Again, her season ended last night...

I have an email in to my assignor now I will wait to see whats what.

Doesn't matter that it was the last game of this season...follow through with the City of Denver and see that she gets suspended for a year or for lifetime...

I would file charges. It will stop all that stuff and stop doing that league if the league supervisors do not take any action. I would not rely on just the league supervisors as they are motivated by money and letting things not ruffle the league than doing the right thing.

Peace

Yup, will do.
Say they do ban her for a year or even life (which i think is a bit much) what about when I or another official sees her in the City of Lakewood or Glendale & she pulls this stunt again?
*leaning toward pressing charges*

Just curious if anybody that replied has read the article in RM?

I would call the cops. If boyfriends were present, some of them may play in leagues and now they know what they can get away with when they see you. You are there to referee a basketball game. You don't have to take that and you certainly don't want to confront the person - take the macho route. Some states have laws about doing things like this to sports officials. The buck should stop with you. Your fellow Denver officials will appreciate it.

My $0.02
 

Tref, I'm going to go a step further based on your reaction to BSR's comments: If you don't like women's basketball - for whatever reason - avoid doing those games. I'm not just saying this as an NCAAW official (I still work boys' high school). I'm saying this because it sounds as though you handled the discipline issue differently because the players were female, at least in this case.

In the OP you wrote:

1. "a player on the losing team is whining for a foul. I let her vent all the way back on defense."
2. "A couple trips up & down, shes still on the bench. I tell the table crew she has been ejected, she leaves or its a forfeit."
3. "I call the game, turn towards the table area, take two step toward my chair & BOOM I'm beamed in the head extremely hard by the basketball."
4. "my partner says it was the player that threw a two-handed overhead ball at me. I tell her she gets a pass only because shes a female!"

Ask yourself: would you have let all of this happen if the players were male? With #4 the answer is obvious. Later on you said the incident reminded you to keep your eyes on the players - regardless of age/sex - at all times.

Bottom line, the woman was out of line and should be punished in some way. What I'm saying is when we work games we don't like - for whatever reason - our guard can drop. I don't like working rec league or games with kids below H.S. age, so I don't. I don't like any negative feelings affecting my game/concentration.

One other thing: I've found I have to be more aware of emotional outbursts when I'm officiating girls/women. This isn't a bias on my part: assignors (male and female) and female officials have told me over the years that women get upset at things guys don't. Heck, I've had girls' H.S. games where players have burst into tears because they didn't get a call.

Please believe me, I do try to avoid their games as much as possible!! That's why I only tryout & currently work higher levels on the mens side. At this particular gym they run mens & womens on two courts on the same night. I was scheduled for mens every Tuesday except this one as everybody has to work at least once on the womens side.

In the OP you wrote:

Off-season yes, I allow males or females to whine on a no call as long as its not disrespectful or laced with cuss words. If we go to the other end & back & they are still whining I usually say "you made your point 5 minutes ago, lets move on." If that doesnt end it, then I use the tools we are given.
Warn, whack, toss...

Nah, it didnt remind me, it taught me not to underestimate anybody anymore.
I never thought to expect that from a woman. But I guess thats why they say expect the unexpected.
Lesson learned (for real this time) trust me!

True story! I looked forward to working the games though, I embrace working playoff/final four situations at any level with any gender. All the marbles are on the table & it can be quite exciting as well as competitive.
I've heard that about female players over the years as well. I will call a held ball much quicker in womens games than mens.

"Just The Facts, Ma'am" ...
 

You have omitted the most important information. Was she hot? Was she single? How can we make rational, relevant, and valid comments without all the facts?

Haha she was a cutie... the only player wearing tight spandex pants instead of shorts. A bit overweight but nothing that your boy couldn't tone up with his ultimate workout plan for the ladies. :D

Actually, that would have been Ron Garretson.

Exactly. They need to know, your assignor needs to know and she needs to be gone forever. If that means filing charges, fine. The next time, she might throw something besides a basketball or worse.

1. Seems like the problem is systemic in this league. Might be time to evaluate whether you've got enough support from the league to continue working their games.

2. I wouldn't recommend socking any player of either gender here. Defending yourself physically is one thing, retaliation is another issue altogether.

3. That's assault, but whether you press charges is up to you. I'm not sure I would, but I'd certainly talk to some of my friends in blue.

Yeah, that's the ticket!


Snaqs, you're right about the retaliation... I was hot!
My other sitch happened in a youth league, not the same facility. My assignors & the supervisor have spoken, so far she is suspended indefinitely. The supervisor also contacted the police, apparently they recommend that I go to the facility & file the report with the supervisor.

I Don't Care If You're Hot, I Don't Care If You're Single ...
 

Hey tref: I think that you misunderstood me. I didn't ask if your were hot. I asked if she was hot.

I'd probably file charges and have done so in the past before in my very first year officiating.

The answer around these parts is a definite maybe. You just disqualified two elements of assault and/or terrorizing, but if you found the contact "offensive" you might still get an assault charge out of it. Either way it's definitely reportable and she can be inconvenienced by dealing with an investigation. Might help her act a little more responsibly to the next official.

There it is.

I can't say for sure whether I'd press charges, as I've never been in that situation, but the only thing I know is gender is irrelevant. I wouldn't get hung up on that.

Battery is harmful or offensive touching. You don't have to be hurt, you don't have to feel threatened. And you can file a civil suit even if you don't swear out a criminal complaint.

File charges
 

Any time an official is physically assaulted, charges should be filed. Even if it did not result in injury, criminal charges should be filed at once.

If you don't call law enforcement, that sends a clear message to every hothead in the community that physical abuse of a referee is tolerated. I don't want to be the next ref who gets whacked because somebody else got away with it.

The question of whether this is a man or a woman is utterly meaningless. File the charges.

Look at it another way; what would be the reaction if you showed up at this woman's place of business and physically assaulted her? Think she wouldn't file charges in a heartbeat?

Also, you need to make a formal request to the league's governing body calling for substantial discipline against the guilty party. A full year's suspension, in my mind, should be a minimum.

Me personally, im probably not gonna file charges in that situation as long as the league issues its own punishment. soley because it was one act and not a continued assault. But Denver's finest are definately gonna escort out her and everyone who came with her.

but if the league did not issue a suspension or ban I wouldnt hesitate to file. nobody is getting a free shot at me and getting off scott free