First Time For Me
 

Last night, working an AAU game, V1 fouls out. Coach has a sub ready, but decides to hold him there. I look at the table and he starts his timer. He gives me a horn at 5, then he gives the horn at 20. Sub isn't even moving, per coach's instruction, he's standing right next to him at the bench.

Good grief.

So how fast did the T come after that nonsense? :)

As soon as I realized the sub wasn't even moving.

Had a kid elevate and swat one into the beleachers. Then, he went Charles Atlas on me. Whack.

http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2...rles-atlas.jpg

Holding him for instructions, or just holding him? If the latter, for what reason?

Does it matter? Sounds like the coach was "trying to make a point"

Yep. Not instructing at all; just 20 seconds of nothing but, "No, just stay here" to both the sub and the DQ'd player.

The PITA quotient had been rising as the game progressed, and I'd shut him down. This was his way of trying to protest without getting a T.

My guess is he didn't know the rule; thought that I would simply direct his sub into the game after 20 seconds or something.

I assumed he knew the rule because of the way he acted, I could tell he knew I'd have the timer start a 20 second clock.

We both learned something.

Confused In Connecticut ...
 

I'm a little confused. If the substitute for the disqualified player had already reported to the table, then I believe that the team does not get the twenty second "time out", the substitute is simply beckoned onto the court. On the other hand, if the substitute for the disqualified player had not yet reported, then I believe that the coach, even if he has already selected the substitute, has the twenty seconds to make the replacement, whether he is giving instructions, or not. On the other hand (I have three hands), if the twenty second replacement period ends, and the replacement player has not yet reported to the table, then the technical foul is certainly warranted, and in fact encouraged (he's being a jerk), in this situation. A reminder for rookies, the technical foul is charged to the head coach, who now gets to rest his aching feet, and take a seat.

Billy, OP says the coach was keeping the sub next to him at the bench. You're correct: if he'd let the kid report Snaqs just beckons him in and the whole situation never develops. Had that been the case I imagine the guy would've said, "Hey, I have a time out to replace my player!" (if I had $1 for every time I've heard that one over the years...)

Snaqs, I'm going to disagree with you on one count: I think he knew he had 20 seconds to replace the DQed player and was just waiting to see if you would ring him up.

Did someone hack your account?

Well I guess he sure showed you, didn't he. Put you right in your place...wait. What's that T for??? Oops...guess he didn't know the rule as well as he thought he did. Silly coach.

Not much else you could do Snaqs...he thought he would one-up you and you dealt with it.

Nope. A pic is worth a thousand words in showing you what the kid did.

Of course, the kid's daddy stepped to the edge of the court and yelled, "This is basketball!!" I have no idea WTH that means and promptly told him to take his seat before I had him removed.

I'm sure the kid has no idea who Charles Atlas is.

Nowhere did he say the kid reported to the table.

I'm Easily Confused ...
 

I wasn't sure what "ready" meant, and I wasn't sure where "there", was, so, in my post, I covered all the bases on what could have occurred in this situation. Bottom line, if the buzzer sounds to end the twenty seconds, and the coach is trying to make some kind of passive aggressive statement, then it's time to whack.

Billy, allow me to direct you to the penultimate sentence in my OP:

Sorry for any confusion.

Read the whole rule, coach....
 

Sounds to me like the coach knew enough about the rule to get himself in trouble. Which took about 21 seconds or so.

I was going to say, seems like he was trying to bait you into a conversation or show you up.

My interpreter once told us this story. A1 is DQ'd and the substitution time is started. This was when the coach got 30 seconds to sub. At the warning horn the official says, "Coach, I'm gonna need a sub."

The coach snaps angrily, "I get 30 seconds!"

Official's reply: "Don't take 31."

:D

It Takes A Big Man To Apologize When He's Right ...
 

Apology accepted.

Little Rant.
 

After a wonderful non-issue run of AAU/Travel ball the last few weeks, today I throw out a coach for the first time in some time.

It just amazes me the things these coaches get upset over. I first gave him a T after the coach several times asked for one. Then when I gave him one we never really asked him to sit down (I just did not bother or care at that point) and then when I asked him to get out of the way of the table, more issues he had with that. This coach then request a timeout clearly after I call a double dribble violation. Then after the time out is perplexed that he does not have the ball out of the timeout (his player was not under pressure before the timeout BTW). Then with more antics, I had enough and dumped his behind. The game was over and forfeited as there was no other coach on the bench.

It never ceases to amaze me what these coaches get upset over. And all in the name of, "I like to talk." Good for you, but now the game is over. ;)

Peace

Had a coach today run up the score; won by about 60 or 70. Late in the first half, I hear him asking for a 5 second count (I was only on 4) when they were up by 36 (42-6). I just said, "four," and looked over to see him laughing.

He had one player, at least, who knew the deal. My partner called a foul, and as we're lining up the guilty party started to moan a little bit until his teammate said, "Look at the score. We're good." It was 34-4, and they were still pressing. My partner said the same kid said the same thing to another teammate later.

This game was a layup drill for the winning team.

At half time the winning coach was hovering around the table complaining just loud enough for us to hear about needing to catch up on the point differential (league standings). It was all I could do not to roll my eyes really loudly.

This might be the thread to post this...I just finished reading a book: "Play Their Hearts Out...A Coach, His Star Recruit and the Youth Basketball Machine". Author's name is George Dohrmann. It's a fascinating look at how AAU has changed (ruined) youth basketball in th US. The main plot of the book is following a specific coach who has latched on to a youth star at a young age, but it profiles a number of coaches in the AAU system.

After reading it, I have come to two conclusions:

1. My instincts are accurate when judging the caliber of individuals involved with AAU basketball.
2. High school basketball has largely become irrelevant in the US because of AAU.

I would reccommend it to anyone who has ever worked an AAU game and come away scratching their head as to how anyone could entrust their child to some of these characters.

Wow in the month of May?!?!

Two thoughts...

1) I disagree with your point about HS basketball becoming irrelevant. Gyms across the country are still filled with fans and student bodies to cheer on their teams. Maybe those games are irrelevant as far as getting scouted by big-time college coaches, but around here we still see college coaches showing up at weekday games to watch players. Buying into that thought process makes us part of the problem.

2) Not only do these parents entrust their kid to these coaches/organizations, they pay them large sums of money just so Johnny can be on the team. It's ridiculous.

If you haven't been to one of the summer AAU tournaments where college coaches/recruiters show up to evaluate talent, then you likely wouldn't understand why parents pay to put their kids on these teams.

Thanks.

Have been.

Will be.

Still makes no sense that parents would pay that kind of money to those kinds of people.

I also disagree with the relevance or irrelevance of HS basketball. Basketball is pretty big in many parts of the country, probably more than others of course. I think AAU is big for players setting themselves up for the HS seasons, but often players are judged by what happens during the regular season and if they can work in a team concept. Of course AAU might be different for some of the top players, but HS is still a place where players have to excel. Summer basketball is about playing a lot of games with the top players and getting higher in the ranking, but if they cannot dominate or beat players at the HS level, they might affect their overall standing. Then again more and more HS teams are going out of their way to play other top teams in my state. The school Derrick Rose attended here in Illinois, his former HS played all over the country as they have several players that are ranked high.

Peace

After reading the book, you get a true sense of how slimy these people are. It was almost repulsive to read about them. Not only because of their (lack of ) character, but also the lengths that they go to exploit KIDS as young as third grade.

I didn't mean "you", I meant anyone reading. You really need to get the stick out of your butt about me. Not really sure what started it, but you need to get over it.

In 100% honesty and sincerity, I have no clue what you are talking about. I did a search and found exactly one thread where you and I disagreed on something in the last several months. So I really have no clue what you are talking about.

But thanks for the instructions. :)

You really think Snaq would allow the player to report, not enter the game and then assess a T?

Tea Time ???
 

Absolutely not. However, I have had some coaches, and don't we all know how intelligent coaches are, have a substitute report to the table for a disqualified player, and then want to call him back to the bench to either talk to him, or to passively aggressively bust my chops, for twenty seconds. BillyMac don't play that game. I beckon, and if he doesn't immediately enter, it's whack. I'm not "known" for my whacking, but I'll whack here, in a Connecticut second.

Are you suggesting I should have gone a different route? Or are you surprised that a SOCO coach would pull that stunt?

Probably surprised that there was a timekeeper who could put 20 seconds on the clock, on demand, and remember to have a horn with 15 seconds left (assuming it wasn't automated).

He seemed prepared, but I actually gave him quick instructions on the spot. I do that in these games for two reasons: 1) To ensure the timer has the proper instruction. 2) To let the coach know that he's only got 20 seconds to throw his little silent tantrum.

What APG said...