Jump Ball

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Of course, Chuck is right again. This is his subtle way of saying that he doesn't agree with the "only time" phrase in the quote. While I'm sure that he agrees that this is one situation for a re-toss, his point is that there are others.
For example, there would be a re-toss if both jumpers simultaneously touched the ball and knocked it straight out of bounds.

You would also re-do the jump using the two players who simulatneously touched the ball before it went OOB, providing that the arrow hasn't yet been set.

Yes, I actually saw this once. Right up close too. There was a tip and two non-jumpers, one from each team, simultanesouly tipped the ball as it sailed OOB.

Mike

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
[/B]

A re-toss occurs when the referee makes an error in tossing the ball. I will amend my orignal statement to include that. The point is, for 6'9' with an afro, is that you don't re-toss the ball again when there's been a violation. [/B][/QUOTE]Tony-Rule 9-6-"If both teams simultaneously commit violations during the jump ball or if the referee makes a bad toss,the toss shall be repeated".I think that there also might be another situation where you could have a re-toss-i.e.a double foul or simultaneous foul before the toss ends.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 20th, 2003 at 09:59 AM]

[BktBallRef]

Yeah, yeah, I understand that the same two players jump again. But that's not the point of my post, so let's just move on before this turns into another 7 page thread.

[Jurassic Referee]

The point of your post was that you would never do what "6'9" with an afro" suggests.I think that everybody agrees with that.

Now,serious question! Is there anything in the book that you know of that says if you have a double or simultaneous foul during a jump ball,the original two jumpers have to re-jump,two new jumpers can now be designated,or the fouling players will jump?

[mdray]

After hunting for an answer to your question JR, I can't find your sitch. great question!
I'm leaning toward one big "do-over" after assessing the fouls. Not sure if even the original jumpers would have to re-jump.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
The point of your post was that you would never do what "6'9" with an afro" suggests.I think that everybody agrees with that.

Now,serious question! Is there anything in the book that you know of that says if you have a double or simultaneous foul during a jump ball,the original two jumpers have to re-jump,two new jumpers can now be designated,or the fouling players will jump?

Well, no. However, drawing conlusions from similar situations and common sense...

On a double foul, I'd go with making the two foulers jump it which is analogous to having A2 and B2 jump if they created a held ball before either them establishes the arrow.

On the simultaneous, it gets a little tricker since there are at least 3 players and probably 4 involved in the fouls. Since you can't have 4 jumpers, my previous logic breaks down. I think there could be several viable solutions...I'd probably go either with making the two foulers jump or a re-jump.

Of course, if this ever actually happens.....

[Jurassic Referee]

If I remember right.....

There used to be several casebook plays covering these different situations-before the AP rule came in and we still actually jumped the tie-ups,starts of quarters,and 5-second calls.Yup,5-second calls were a jump ball at one time,too.Naturally,when the AP rule came in,there was no need to emphasize the different situations that could arise,because they just didn't arise that much anymore with only one jump at the start of the game(excluding o/t).

I think,if I remember right,that the rule-of-thumb was that if you had to re-jump because of a double violation,or a double or simultaneous foul that occured BEFORE the jump ended,then any 2 players could still jump.If there was another jump because of a double violation,or double or simultaneous foul that occured AFTER the jump ended,then the 2 players involved had to jump.The language used to tell what ended a jump-the ball touching the floor,basket or another non-jumper-was still the same as it is now.

As I said,I don't think that the plays are actually covered now,but as Camron intimated,these sitchs don't really occur in real life anymore.I can't remember seeing one,anyway.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
On a double foul, I'd go with making the two foulers jump it which is analogous to having A2 and B2 jump if they created a held ball before either them establishes the arrow.

If two guys are so heated that they foul each other before the opening jump, I'm pretty sure I don't want them to do the re-jump!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Now,serious question! Is there anything in the book that you know of that says if you have a double or simultaneous foul during a jump ball,the original two jumpers have to re-jump,two new jumpers can now be designated,or the fouling players will jump?

I don't believe so. I would probably jump again with the same jumpers, or with different jumpers if either coach changed his mind.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by mdray
After hunting for an answer to your question JR, I can't find your sitch. great question!
I'm leaning toward one big "do-over" after assessing the fouls. Not sure if even the original jumpers would have to re-jump.

Doesn't 6-3-3f NOTE answer the question (at least for the double foul part)?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Doesn't 6-3-3f NOTE answer the question (at least for the double foul part)?

I don't know whether it does or not,Bob.I really don't know whether this would cover both cases-double foul before and after the jump ended,but before possession was gained.If I remember right,in the casebook plays that used to be in the book,the 2 players who committed the double foul would jump only if the double foul occured after the jump ball ended.If it occured before the jump ball ended,anybody on the floor could re-jump.The rationale was that,because the original jump never ended,all the circumstances related to the original jump should still be in place.Double violations and simultaneous fouls were covered the same way.Any other old guys remember this?

You probably can't go wrong following 6-3-3f NOTE,though.