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Camron Rust Wed Apr 04, 2012 03:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 835750)
I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

No problem at all. Even if the ruling may be different, the play presents the scenario either way.

I'd only consider it big timing of one of the official on the game was presenting the video.

It is highly unusual to get video from a high school game of sufficient quality and from varying angles to break down the play in the manner that can be done from an NCAA D1 game.

JRutledge Wed Apr 04, 2012 04:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 835750)
I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

The same plays that we see at the college level, take place at the HS level. I use the videos to illustrate rules or judgments, not to promote college games. Often the college games and even NBA games have actual multiple angles and multiple replays. Most HS games are not on TV and when you do get a game on TV the angles are limited. I have used some personal videos, but the examples are not as clear. Also when you use college plays, usually no one is in the room that you are selling out. Some people have gotten upset when they are on the video and the way they screwed up is highlighted. College games often no one is on the game and we only know them by face, not personally. What better way to show multiple block/charge plays by TV games than a bad angle 100 feet away on a personal or team game tape? If people feel like you are big timing them, they really need to get over it. Most people learn by visual ways rather than debating what the words says. That is why what APG has added to this site has enhanced the discussions 10 fold to 10 years ago when all we could discuss was what we remember or what we thought we saw.

Peace

JRutledge Wed Apr 04, 2012 05:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 835753)
How is it big timing it (I know, not your words)? Basketball is basketball...just because a certain level handles a play differently doesn't mean one can't use a clip and apply whatever standards are dictated for a level of play.

And the benefit I find in using plays from NCAA and NBA games is that we're afforded multiple angles to see plays...all in HD. There's only so much one can see and tell from the usual view we get at the high school level.

The same organization that I run the basketball class that I founded, runs a football class as well. I am one of the lead instructors at a cite for that football class and we use video of college and pro all the time. Now the rules in football (as you know APG) are drastically different from an application standpoint. But the basic football rules are the exact same at all levels, but the college and pro has different applications. For example the same action might be a penalty at all levels, but college ranks it is an automatic first down at and the pro level the foul is enforced from the previous spot instead of the succeeding spot. All we have to do is explain that to the class and observers.

And in pro and college games many games have 10 cameras at each game and we can see multiple angles. This class is for very new officials and they often do not know better, but it helps them see what the rules state rather showing PowerPoint wording and hoping they understand. It usually enhances discussion and keeps everyone engaged in the discussions as well. I would not give a presentation without video if I can help it.

Peace

BillyMac Wed Apr 04, 2012 07:32pm

Al Jolson Was The Cat's Pajamas ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 835707)
A section of a talkie.

Hey. Silent movies are making a comeback. The Artist won the Academy Award for best picture. Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. told me that talkies would eventually make a comeback. I guess that he was right, for a change.

JetMetFan Thu Apr 05, 2012 01:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 835750)
I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

I'll echo the others: we all learn from the video. If the H.S.-only officials had to wait for decent video of their games they might be waiting for a very long time. The goal is to take from the video what you need mainly because, as JRut pointed out, rules can be applied differently under different codes.

If anyone is feeling "big-timed" they need to learn to check their ego at the door. Besides, the people on those videos working at a higher level are doing it better...that's why they're at the higher level in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 835776)
Also when you use college plays, usually no one is in the room that you are selling out. Some people have gotten upset when they are on the video and the way they screwed up is highlighted.

JRut, I've been lucky enough to be in college meetings where the people on the video are in the room. Most, if not all, of them are very good about it and willing to discuss the situations afterwards which has been great. They were comfortable enough with themselves and their ability to realize no one is perfect. As long as no one is a jerk when asking them about a play or two they've been cool.

Welpe Thu Apr 05, 2012 06:28am

Kudos to JetMetFan for all of the discussion provoking video he's been posting as well!

JRutledge Thu Apr 05, 2012 08:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 835836)
JRut, I've been lucky enough to be in college meetings where the people on the video are in the room. Most, if not all, of them are very good about it and willing to discuss the situations afterwards which has been great. They were comfortable enough with themselves and their ability to realize no one is perfect. As long as no one is a jerk when asking them about a play or two they've been cool.

I have been in the same situation and even last season was in the room and was sitting close to someone that was on the tape. He simply joked about his role on the video. But if you are on NCAA video, you are likely a top official in the first place.

Peace

JetMetFan Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 835848)
Kudos to JetMetFan for all of the discussion provoking video he's been posting as well!

Gracias, Welpe. Little did I think the "T or no T" video would lead to five pages of comments!

JugglingReferee Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:54am

Thanks, APG.

canuckrefguy Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jugglingreferee (Post 835887)
thanks, apg.

+1

chymechowder Thu Apr 05, 2012 08:17pm

wanted to add my thanks as a 2nd year guy. the videos and the discussion of them have been a great learning tool.


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