From ESPN's H.S. showcase...NFHS Rule 4-44-3b in action (sort of)
 

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I wonder how this became a jump ball. Stick with original call or IW and give ball back to original team.

Thus making the problem that much worse...

I agree.

If we have an IW we resume play using POI correct? So in this case no one had established possession following the shooter releasing the ball. So I would think the arrow is the way to go w/o seeing a rules reference telling me otherwise???

Agree....it has to either be a travel or a IW (and most here agree that it wouldn't be a dribber/travel until the player touches it again).


The ONLY way to get to a jump ball would be to declare it a shot....a really bad shot.

No, he's not a shooter and it was not a shot....so team control persists.

The question would be whether the officials ruled a try was attempted. If that's the case then yes, the POI would be neither team in control and the AP procedure would be used. However, did A1 shoot the ball? If he didn't, then Team A was still in control.

Yes, POI woudl be the way to go with an IW. Since, there was not an actual attempt a violation occurred that's we go with.

See I was going under the premise he was in the act of shooting. He realized he was going to get rejected and just released the ball.. If he fumbled it then yes I see the logic.

What would the violation be??

There's more than those two options. If he fumbled it, he would be allowed to retrieve it, and an IW would revert to the team in control. If he shot it, he could retrieve it, but an IW would go to the arrow. If he purposefully released it without trying for goal (my judgment on this play), then he can not retrieve it or even be the first to touch it; and an IW should go to the team with control.

No way this is a shot or a fumble. It's just a bad pass.

His violation is for going into the air with nothing to do with the ball. It's not something we deal with from the whistle, though; it's a coaching issue. :D

Snaq's I agree with you that it was purposefully released, after realizing he was about to be swatted, but a pass? to whom? Everyone on his team is crashing the boards.

If he jumps up to shoot and just drops the ball (intentionally) then what do you got? I don't have a fumble or a pass but a bad shot.

I guess that is why I agreed with the call. But I see your logic too.

It's not a try for goal, so I can't give him that. It's not a fumble, so I can't give him that. It's not a dribble. The only other option is a bad pass. He looks like he's hoping a teammate gets to it first.

If you consider this a shot, then you have to let him retrieve it. The case play is specific that this is not allowed.

Snaqs, actually it could be considered a dribble since A1 put the ball on the floor. Regardless, both a dribble and a pass are covered under 4-44-3b.

You're right (except there's no G in my interwebs name). It could be a dribble, but I don't deem it so if the player never touches it again. He obviously doesn't attempt to touch the ball again, so I'm going with a pass.

Cool, I get your point.

And your spelling :)

Rehashing an old argument: Nothing in the definition of a dribble requires a second touch by the player in control. On the release, it is either a pass, a try, a fumble or a dribble. In the OP, the release seems intentional, so no fumble. I can't imagine calling it a try. A pass, by definition is "to another player." No other player is available here, so that leaves a dribble, which, by definition, occurs when the ball hits the floor. Violation.

And how is a dribble defined?

"......bats or pushes the ball to the floor, once or several times."

It looks like a travel to me.

BTW, I T'd up the La Lumiere coach in a tournament where he was coaching another team.

Peace

The official who made this call is Bill Dixon.
He is the President for IAABO Bd 12.
Events Calendar

He's been around for a long time in that area.

I couldn't get past the horrible positioning of the crew on this play.

You didn't like the two-trail look? ;)

Actually more like Lead and Center strong-side, Trail near the division line weak-side. I don't know what was going on.:confused:

The ball was pushed to the floor - that's the start of a dribble. Since his pivot foot came off the floor before that, it's a travel. Snaqs - I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything else and I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here?

I wouldn't call it a travel until I knew for sure it was a dribble. Normally, these players throw it somewhere, anywhere, knowing they can't come down with it or dribble it. This player did the same thing, he let it go and hoped a teammate would come get it. To me, that's a pass, not a dribble, even if it's a bad pass.

I would agree with the travel just because he pushes it basically strait down, if he had pushed it away from himself you could call it a pass; but on the spot with the whistle in my mouth it would be hard not to whistle this a travel. I still don't understand why they went to the arrow.

Not when you keep the air in your belly and factor in discipline, patience & benefit of the doubt.

I heard someone say Bill Dixon is president of Board 12. What kind of communication did he have with his partners? He walks down, takes the ball and then points at himself, then goes arrow, guaranteed no one else knows what he's doing. Then he gets it wrong.

Umm, I guess he's a do as a say not as I do, kind of guy.