Interesting - it's physically correct (in a good deal of cases), but might be hard to distinguish in a "bang-bang" play . . .

Interesting!! I'm definitely going to watch for this, and see what I think...

All you really have to do...........
 

is look at the feet. If the feet stay in the same place, it is usually a flop. If the feet move and the player goes backwards, it is charge.

I never heard of the head movement before, I might have to pay more attention to that in the future.

Peace

Just a matter of interest - when you guys are quoting rules which rulebooks are you using ... FIBA or some USA college/highschool...or whatever other interpretations you have over there?!?!

Only HS.
 

You know about 95 percent of us are HS Officials, so when we talk about rules and camps, we are only refering to National Federation Rules. Ya know, none of us are previledged enough to attend NCAA driven camps. ;)

Peace

Geeze....what a mess.

Anyway, this thread includes 2 new ways (new to me at least) of determining a flop and now I'm left wondering why it's a good idea to watch a defenders feet or head when we should be looking for body contact.

More than body contact.
 

Of course you are looking at body contact, but it is always good to look at other markers to help make your calls more consistant and obvious. ;)

Peace

I don't know, Dan, I think it would be possible to watch for contact, and also watch the defender's head. The feet are more tricky, and I think less telling. But the head could be a great indicator of what's happening in the defender's brain. I do think that this shouldn't be the only measure, though. A kid may start to flop, but then get bowled over. In that case, if the defender is actually moving backward (to flop), and he or she still takes enough contact, I'd call the PC.

Agree it's easy enough to watch the head movement of the defender - but my point is why? IMO block/charge is easy enough, even on bang/bang plays. If you're in position to look at the defenders head movement then you probably shouldn't need this clue to call it correctly. And yes, the defender can flop backwards and still get the charge if there's sufficient contact.

It's not a 100% indicator, but the laws of physics govern the flop/charge one.

Due to inertia, the head will stay still upon chest contact, at least until the neck (hopefully) pulls the head back. If it all goes together, it's because the muscles are pulling the neck back.

But when I'm alone in the half-light of the canyon, all existence seems to fade to being with my soul and memories, and the sounds of the Big Blackfoot River and a four-count rhythm, and a hope that a fish will rise. Eventually all things merge into one....and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood, and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words. And some of the words are theirs.

I am haunted by waters

BsktBallRef, that is breathtaking.

Juulie - I want to see you apply this principle in the games we have together tomorrow night.

Sorry to get off track again, but just how many differences are there between your HS rules and say, FIBA rules. Cause I know NBA rules are a pile of .... but was wondering if all your other leagues are the same ;)

Is that French? I don't understand it.

Seriously......
 

Most of us have no experience with FIBA Rules. In the states we only deal with NF (High School) and NCAA (College) and some have NBA Rules for Pro-Am Leagues. FIBA is only something we see during the Olympics or the World Championships if we even care to watch. So you are not going to find many here that know much or anything about FIBA Rules in that much detail.

Peace