T during a time-out
 

15U girls rec game. End-of-season league tournament semifinal. I was the only official because my partner didn't show up (that's a rant for another day). FED rules, with a few modifications (one that becomes VERY important to the story)

Team A, leading by one point with about 15 seconds left, has an endline spot throw-in under B's basket (on the bench-side lane line) after an OOB violation and a Team A timeout.

I hand the ball to A15 to start the throw-in. She immediately takes off running OOB towards the other lane line. I call the violation for leaving the designated spot (first time I've ever had to call that particular violation, incidentally). Conversation between myself and A15 goes like this:
A15: "You told me I could run the line!!!!!"
Me: "I told you that after a made basket early in the second half. This was not after a made basket"
A15: "But you told me.... blah blah blah" (I stopped listening at that point because Team B called a timeout, and I had other things to do).

I go to the table to report the timeout, A15 is still fuming, her coach starts talking to her, and then I hear her scream "F--- THAT!" loud enough to echo through the already-loud gym.

Whack.

Team A coach tries the "she wasn't talking to you, she was talking to me" line.... as if that matters.

Now, in this league, a technical foul results in an automatic 2 points + throw in for the other team. (no foul shots, just award the points and move on).

Now Team B is up by one, with a division line throw-in with 15 seconds left.

No other points are scored in the remaining 15 seconds, and Team B wins the game by 1 point.

Good times.

Anyway, my question: Is the time-out period considered an "intermission" for purposes of penalizing unsporting behavior (4-34-2)? If not, the T is charged to A15 only. If so, the T would've also been an indirect to the head coach.

The rulebook has several instances where rules mention activities during "a time-out or intermission", which, to me, implies that a time-out is not considered an intermission. But that feels wrong to me for some reason.

In this case it didn't matter... there's no coaching box, and no other technical fouls were directly or indirectly charged to the head coach over the course of the game... just wondering for future reference.

4.34.1 has your answer

A timeout is not an intermission, players are still players during a timeout.

By rule, after timeouts shouldnt we indicate to the offense & defense whether its a running or designated throw-in?

If you had made the effort to tell her earlier in the game that she could run after a made basket, why in the world would you not tell her she had to stay on the spot with 15 seconds left in a 1 point game?

Out of all the stuff in his post, this is what you zero in on??? Nice...

It would have avoided the whole thing. :rolleyes:

It's Not An Option ...
 

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, every single time we inbound the ball on the backcourt endline, we must tell the inbounder if they have a designated spot, or if they can run the endline, along with using the appropriate signals.

+1 A good habit I have also adopted here in my neck of the backwoods.

On EVERY throw-in (following a violation, foul, timeout) whether its on the sideline or endline the administering official should designate the spot both visually & verbally.

I don't think anybody is saying that it is a bad idea, but it is still a courtesy, like counting 6 players and notifying before putting the ball in play. It is still ultimately the responsibility of the player to know. And having said that, any sympathy I might have had goes out the window when the kid screams the F word.

jar, I dont think this is an option, by rule, the administering official shall designate the throw-in spot.

What rule?

Perhaps its just an IAABO thing :confused:

Pg 124 of our manual under Throw-in (section C)
3. Official making the ruling SHALL indicate the throw-in spot.
4. Administering official SHALL designate throw-in spot.

4-42-6

It is not just an IAABO thing.

I'll do it on every throw-in just to keep in the habit.

Sure it would have.

So would having a 15 year old player who knows what she is doing.

So would having a Coach who tells his/her players what to do.

Probably having a partner who shows up would have helped too because then jtheump wouldn't have to worry about taking care of everything himself.

But what the heck...let's not worry about any of that. Let's just jump on jtheump because...well, just because we can.:rolleyes:

Many people come to these forums for all kinds of reasons. I don't see the comment as "jumping on" the poster. It provides information, guidance, rules knowledge, etc. to everyone else who reads this forum. I thought this was a good point...and I found it interesting how other officials handle this.

Some feel this is a courtesy, while some say it is both a rule and a mechanic. These are important things for all officials to know. And it contributes to the value of the forum for everyone.

I don't think he was out of line in suggesting he should have informed whether it was a "spot" or she had the ability to move along the end line. The answer was already given to the OP's question...whether the timeout was considered an intermission. And it was sound advice given, IMO, to inform whether the throw-in is a "spot" throw-in or not.

I do this every game, every throw in both visually and verbally so that not only the player has been told, but the player also knows and if they look at the video they can see what I have told them. It takes away the confusion and backs up what they were told. I think this suggestion is spot on and solid advice. We have to stop being so sensitive when things are suggested.

Peace

Thanks for the responses and the casebook reference... turns out I was looking at the wrong sections of the casebook (Rule 10 instead of Rule 4).

RE: Telling the player that she needed to stay on the spot... believe me, that thought occurred to me immediately after the smoke cleared. And I'm going to start doing that from now on.

Other context:
Before the game, the Team A head coach offered to grab a whistle and act as the second official. :eek: "Coach, I appreciate the offer, but I can't let you do that for several reasons."

I found out after the game that the Team A head coach is A15's father.

Should've been an interesting ride home, to say the least. I can only hope it was a productive "there are consequences to unsporting behavior" type conversation rather than an "officials suck" conversation.

This was the 5th of 6 games I worked solo that day. The 6th game was worse in some respects... 1 unsporting player T, 1 unsporting coach T, and a "Worst Official in the World" award handed out after the game by a fan standing at the exit of the gym.

Go back and read his post...he didn't say "This unfortunate situation could perhaps have been avoided if you had..." He said "Why in the world would you not..."

Big difference, don't you think?

It perhaps could have been worded a little nicer, but I don't think there was any ill intent or malice meant by the post.

Hmmm...ok. Maybe I misread intent. Sure seemed to me like it was dumping on someone who was asking for constructive feedback.

I think you are overracting a little. It is hard in this format to type tone or attitude accurately. I would have asked the same question in a camp and you would have thought I asked in the nicest way. I think we sometimes want to find conflict when there is none.

Peace

man I hope they gave you your partner's paycheck too. 6 games solo doesn't sound fun at all.

Endline, absolutely. Sideline? I'll point, of course, but I don't see the point of yelling "designated" there. I've never seen anyone run a sideline.

I can assure you I wouldn't think twice about any tea that got served while I was working solo.

I never use the word designated. Maybe I should, but all I say is "this is your spot."

Hey folks ... this is the internet. You can't read tone from someone else's post. I don't care how smart your think you are or how good an official you are... you just can't. How smart is it to read a post, make a conscious decision to take that post in the most negative way possible, and then rip the poster for being negative... it was YOU that brought in the negativity. If there are multiple ways to read someone's "tone" - choose the nicest one.

Never say never
 

Had a girl under pressure (ball, ball, ball!!!) take off down the sideline on me a few seasons ago :eek:

After the game I looked up the administration process & when it used the word "shall" instead of "may" I realized that I made the mistake & have been designating every spot from that day forward.
BTW, you dont have to yell it.

How long before you blew the whistle? I know since I've never seen it, I probably would have hesitated while she took 3 steps and been thinking wtf is going on here :D

Be Honest

Dude you hit it on the head!! I let the girl run from the 28' to the FT line extended & I cannot remember how late my whistle was.

Thats a given ;-)

Please tell me you didn't do the traveling violation sign. The few times I have seen this play, never on my court, the official signaled travel. Every single time. The latest was this year in the Pac 12 game. :eek:

Ouch, not the 12!! Those checks are too big not to know one can only travel while holding a live ball inbounds. smh

Please tell me it wasnt one of our guys?

It wasn't one of ours, I didn't recognize the guy.

Two years ago, I was C in the OP situation, but instead of running, A1 threw a pass to A2, who was OOB. I ended up calling it from C, and coach, right behind me, was shaking his head and telling me he had just taught them that play the week before.