Down goes player.
 

This happen to me for the first time. I just want to see how others would handle it.

I was the NEW LEAD in transition on the table side. One of the players went really wide and as I tried to avoid him, he cut back into me as the ball was on its way for a pass and he goes down. I was fine but the ball clearly went out of bounds. Now this was a 20 point game and I just gave the ball back to the team of the player I ran into or ran into me. No one said a word.

Just wondering would you do the same thing or would you just call a violation and go the other way?

Peace

Stuff happens. OOB violation.

I had state tourney game this week where the ball hit me on the leg while I was in transition in the C position. I was mostly out of bounds and even though the ball hit me on the leg that was on the court...I felt I had no choice but to apply the correct rule.

It's a slippery slope when we set aside rules in the interest of fairness.

I would have gone with an out of bounds violation IMO...

My thought?
 

OOB violation. That's just the way life goes. You didn't have any issues, which is good, but in the long run we can only get in trouble when we ignore obvious calls.

We can only get in trouble? Trouble with whom?

I got that some would not do this and I am fine with that part, but let us not act like we are going to get in trouble with anyone seriously.

Peace

We can get into trouble with coaches, though you didn't which is a good thing.

We can get into trouble with assignors.

We can get into trouble with observers.

Obviously you didn't have any problems in the situation so that's great but if someone who "matters" - for lack of a better term - is watching, they might not look upon the charity as a positive.

Wouldn't care one bit.

Could, but doubt it.

Probably, but just put it on the list.

And they might not care either. But if they do they would have to show me a rule that says I can't.

Peace

The rules say that you got it wrong.

What if the spread was 15 points? 12? 10? Does the remaining time on the clock matter? At what time remaining does it no longer matter? Does that time remaining change based on the spread at the time?

The only consistent thing is to call the rule as written.

And next time, be a trail, not a non-trail. ;)

What rule?

Peace

Last touched.

I think sometimes we worry too much about what coaches, assignors, and evaluators think. Some people on this forum seem to make every call while thinking of what someone else is going to think.

I doubt anyone, in reality, is going to notice or care what Jeff did here. It was one call in a meaningless situation. That said, I probably would've called it as it was. I'm not fast enough to make stuff up on the fly. Although we could have a great discussion on out of bounds calls where a bump is ignored in exchange for giving the "right" team the ball. :D

JRut, I gotta ask: Did the new Trail official get "ahead" of the play, or did the pass go backwards and tangle the new Trail official up in it?

hmmm
 

Just call the OOB, you are part of the game/court, stuff happens.

Rut,

You're about 5 levels above where I officiate, but i would rule it as a violation.

As this is a once in a career type play, I don't think anyone is really going to care. This isn't like getting hit by the ball. It's taking a player out of the play. IMO, it's a situation that easily lends itself to 2-3.

I'd say it's a little more prevalent than once in a career...but usually you see it in a transition when going from old trail to new lead on a fastbreak.

How many times have you personally knocked a player down?

Can't say it's happened to me, but I've had some situations (quick steal) where a player has almost collided into me (were it not for my 4.4 speed ;)).

I guess I was saying I've seen it happen maybe once or twice an NBA season...so not a once a career thing...maybe 1.5 a career. :D

I reread my post and I mistakenly said new trail, when I meant NEW LEAD. So I was ahead of the play and got in the way of a streaking player as we were already wide or close to the sideline. I just misjudged the player's movements and he feel down. Not sure that will change anyone's opinion about the play. Sorry it was rather early morning when I posted this.

Peace

Let's just say I'm hoping it's a once-a-career situation. :D

It has never happened to me in my 16 years of working games at any level or any type of game. And as I stated I was actually the new lead not the new trail.

Peace

It was a first in 25 years for me when I got clipped as the new lead a few weeks ago. Except *I* went down and the kid got the ball a second later and finished a layup. I've gone down before, but not because of player contact.

Well you're good for half a take down next time. :D

That is why I workout man. ;)

Peace

I didn't make it 25 years, but this year was my first such situation , and I also was the one who went down.

I swear I heard a whistle right before he crashed into you...

I actually had a deal which might be even worse. Bad pass, not close to anybody, headed out of bounds. I reached out to catch it, didn't handle it cleanly, and it bounced off my hand and stayed inbounds. I blew the whistle and pointed in the opposite direction. Coach protested briefly, and then let it go.

Supported by rule? no Just one of those things.

Rich, I'm not saying we should go onto the court worrying about what others think. There's no way we can officiate effectively that way. That being said I was reminded early on that we never know who's watching us.

At any rate, my point was on par with what JugglingRef said...just call what's there. Sometimes stuff happens.

And I've Taken Out A Few Cheerleaders ...
 

I don't think that I ever have, but I have set some "wicked" screens. (How's my Maine accent bainsey?)

Snaqs:

I have never (with apologies to J. Dallas Shirley) knocked a player down, but years ago, before Mark was a gleam in my eyes, I got "tackled" by a player diving for a loose ball that was going out of bounds along my sideline. The game was a boys' H.S. freshmen game; I don't know why the player dived for the ball because his team would have gotten the ball because it was going OOB off his opppoenent. The game was on the Friday afternoon of the last week of the OhioHSAA regular season. I officiated a NAIA women's college regular season game the next afternoon when I really shouldn't have because: The following Monday I found out that I had suffered a strained MCL and a cracked tibia in my left leg. I did not return to officiating until the opening week of the H.S. baseball season. The best thing of returning to officiating was that my first baseball game of the season was a boys' H.S. freshmen game (I was behind the Plate) and the Lead Off Batter for the Visitor's was the basketball player that had ended my basketball season. He didn't know the extent of my injury; I told him that it was not a problem, but he had better be swinging every at bat because every pitch he saw was going to be a strike, ;).

MTD, Sr.

That is an absolute true statement. You do never know who is around. But the reality is there is no rule that covers this at all. I asked and I did not get a single rule that says what you do if an official interfere with the players. This was not an out of bounds situation where the player was not obstructed. And if the throw was not on the way when the kid fell I might have done something totally different. Again this has never happened to me in all the games I have worked during the regular season and in the off season. And at the point I am at in my career, I doubt there would have been too many people at this game where I would have had to worry about what they thought. And if they did not like it, they would tell me and I would listen. But it is overplayed to suggest that I did not follow a rule when this is not covered specifically and what 2-3 is for in the first place. I would have been OK with going with an out of bounds call completely in a close game or a game that had any question of the outcome. But this team was not going to beat this ranked team with only a couple of minutes left to go and it would not have mattered. We all laughed about it in the locker room and one of my partners was a State Final did not agree with the call, but he felt the way I handled it was fine. And there was a crew that followed us and that was some ribbing about the situation from them as well.

Peace

I went back and looked at the original post and, in my opinion, what you describe isn't an official interfering with a player. You say you were in transition, the player went wide, cut back into the court and ran into you. From that description it sounds as though the player was at fault. But anyway...

You're right: there's nothing in the rules covering this situation. NFHS 4-4-4 only deals with the ball hitting the official and 2-3 gives us the right to handle whatever isn't specifically covered in the rules. However, I'm thinking the original post was made because there was some trepidation regarding the way the situation was dealt with. Even in your latest post you say one of your partners thought you handled it "fine" but didn't agree with the call and I'm going to make a guess why: what if the same situation happened with one of your partners a minute or two later for the other team? What were they supposed to do?

From what I can tell we've both been in this crazy vocation for a while and have been in/watched a lot of games. I've seen the situation you've described more than a few times at every level - heck, I was almost in it Wednesday night - and I can't say I remember the team whose player hit the deck as a pass went OOB getting the ball back, regardless of the score. Sure, 2-3 gives us latitude but I'm thinking we should apply it consistently. What if, when the situation happened, it was a 20-point game but the underdog team all of a sudden hits a bunch of threes to make it close...and the same thing happens? To me, that's where the problems I mentioned earlier pop up.

I'm sure I would've laughed about it too since I run about a 4.4 in the 10-yard dash and I had a partner almost double over as a kid nearly steamrolled me earlier this season but if the player had run into me and had a pass go over his head I would've just apologized to him and the coach.

Well who was at fault could be debatable. I feel I could have avoided him and misjudged his movement. I clearly was in his way for whatever reason and he was not able to continue with a play made for him. I think who is at fault is ultimately irrelevant. But since I personally felt responsible on some level, I made a decision based on that.

I post questions like this often not for advice, but to see if others would handle a situation similar or different and why. I was fine with what I did, but there was a debate on some level. Now when I say debate, it was all in fun and the comments were more about, "They bought it." And we did debate if there was a rule that applied. I asked because I could not find a rule and did not think I was totally off base to do what I did. Honestly I do not know what the others would have done if it happened to them and I would have not cared. I made a personal decision at the time based on the circumstances I was involved in. Again, this has never happened to me and I cannot think of a time where I have ever seen it happen to someone else where a player fell under the circumstances I was involved in.

I think being a good official is to think of the bigger picture. Just like we might not T something in a close game that we would in a different part of the game is not unusual. That is ultimately why we get paid to do what we do as officials. We have to make decisions that are appropriate for the game. I would think I would do the exact same thing if this was a one point game. It clearly was not and it was clear by all involved that this team could not get out of their own way (pun intended). And I do feel this is an appropriate application of 2-3 because there appears to be no ruling or interpretation to say what to do. Not sure how you can be consistent about something that is not mentioned or covered at all. Maybe there should be an interpretation, but until then I would do the same thing again.

Again it was a funny event and even was called my "passing interference" call. I got a kick out of it and so did everyone else that was the official. If I felt for a minute that I was not partially involved then I would have let it ride. The only reason I did this was the pass was on the way when he went down. If the pass was errant or bad in any way I would have just let it go and rule the out of bounds. But I made a split decision and have to live with it. I will do my best not to have this happen again for sure and I have had some close calls in some cases before, but I did what I felt was right for the game at the time. I was expecting disagreement with that call and if I did not welcome it I would have never posted the situation here.

Peace

Man you sure are fast with that speed. :D

Knowing you and where you are in your career, it's no biggy given the score. If it happened to be me in a ccl game same score situation , I could be called in on the carpet(probably not though).

For that reason, I would have just gone OOB, as we are part of the court.

That said, at my age it would have been me down or in the second row.

As a clinician and a board member, if I was watching your game and this happened to you, I would only ask you what happen and how you fell? I seriously doubt I would have been complaining about this either way unless I had a rule that was clearly not applied. I could not think of one so I did what I did. And I have still yet to get one that has convinced me otherwise in this discussion.

I probably would give you more crap of falling or making a player fall (as long as everyone was OK of course). :D

Peace