Communication

[tref]

Extremely loud crowd, so noisy that the horn couldnt be heard for anything (1st & 2nd timeout horns, subs, end of quarters).

61-61 game with 2 seconds remaining in the 4thQ. Turnover, the ball goes OOB on the sideline in front of the visiting teams bench. The clock operator allegedly didnt hear the Ts whistle & stops it at 1.3 then starts again, stops on .6

The C runs over to the T & apparently asks if the ball went OOB because if it didnt the Q is over because he saw the clock stop then start again. I dont know what the T said, but the C walks toward the table to ask for help or adjust the clock.

My question to you guys is before heading to the table, what step is missing from this process?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Extremely loud crowd, so noisy that the horn couldnt be heard for anything (1st & 2nd timeout horns, subs, end of quarters).

61-61 game with 2 seconds remaining in the 4thQ. Turnover, the ball goes OOB on the sideline in front of the visiting teams bench. The clock operator allegedly didnt hear the Ts whistle & stops it at 1.3 then starts again, stops on .6

The C runs over to the T & apparently asks if the ball went OOB because if it didnt the Q is over because he saw the clock stop then start again. I dont know what the T said, but the C walks toward the table to ask for help or adjust the clock.

My question to you guys is before heading to the table, what step is missing from this process?

The fact that is a 3-man crew.

Sometimes the same problem happens on an OOB play where Lead asks for help and Trails shrugs his shoulders so Lead will come out with 2 thumbs up instead looking to the 3rd person in the crew.

[Rich]

I had a similar thing happen in a 2-person game a few weeks ago. Ball got kicked around and out up high on my sideline as the L. I had *no idea* who violated.

So I asked for help, like I always do. Hand up and shout "Help!" to my partner. Unfamiliar partner and we didn't cover this in the pregame too thoroughly and he shrugs his shoulders and I have no choice but to go to the arrow. (Right or wrong, my regular partner and I *always* come out of that situation with a decision if at all possible.)

But yeah, 3rd official. I'd much rather use that person than ask the table for help.

[tref]

Okay so we are in agreement that the 3rd official should be included in the conversation prior to the C runs to the table.

We pregamed that the entire crew should be made aware of whats going on & how we will proceed if any unusual situations arose. And when it came up we did just the opposite.

So as the new T to administer the throw-in in front of the visitors bench in a game winning situation & you have no clue what your partners are discussing, what would you do?

[loners4me]

Set the ball down to show the spot and join your partners discussions. I'd want to know the situation proir to throw in

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

So as the new T to administer the throw-in in front of the visitors bench in a game winning situation & you have no clue what your partners are discussing, what would you do?

Prior to this, as soon as you saw the C moving for discussion, tweet tweet, go to your benches. And join them for the discussion. Place the ball down on the floor where it will be thrown in so there is no question after the conference where the ball is.

My thoughts are in a end of the game situation all officials need to know the situation. Don't wait to be beckoned in though or expect it, even though you pregamed it, just know that all officials need to have the information and go get it.

[tref]

Originally Posted by loners4me

Set the ball down to show the spot and join your partners discussions. I'd want to know the situation proir to throw in

So when I did that (except for setting the ball down on the sideline where someone could step on it & sprain an ankle) the Cs story changed from "I was going to ask the table for information" to "I was going to put 1.3 on the clock."

Either way my main concern in post game was that we deviated from the pregame in the most crucial time of the game. Why?

I was told that I caused a huge game interrupter because I wanted to know what was going on.

I'm thinking if the time jumps from .6 to 1.3 the coach I'm administering in front would want to know why as a trip to the Great 8 is on the line. If I dont get in there prior to the time being adjusted I've got no info to provide.

In summation we agree that each crew member should be afforded info in this situation. But do we have a preference on who corrects the clock & who brings the coaches together to explain whats what??

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

... But do we have a preference on who corrects the clock & who brings the coaches together to explain whats what??

Crew Chief, IMO, because he is the one who is responsible for any game report or info to the supervisor. I don't want the U1 or U2 telling the table and coaches something and then me telling my supervisor "Well, Bob told me he told the coach blah-blah-blah" and supervisor is saying "The coach said Bob said wonk-wonk-wonk"

[tref]

Okay, so as the R on the game I'm not wrong for:

1. Expecting the crew to stick to the pregame?

2. Holding up the C (U2) from going to the table?

3. Making sure I know what we have before proceeding?

Couldn't believe they said by doing those things I created a game interrupter!
Had we stuck to the script it would've been much smoother.

I gave the C my toss to create a team atmosphere as he was the vet & I can tell he doesnt appreciate not being the R when we work together.
My pregame was stomped on by the C & many officials in the stands have said it looked as though the C was trying to take over the game well before that situation came up.

I work with the T again on Saturday & that's cool, but I dont know how to move forward with the C. he obviously doesnt respect what I do or he just says whether I'm the R or not, I'm running this game.
Thoughts?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Crew Chief, IMO, because he is the one who is responsible for any game report or info to the supervisor. I don't want the U1 or U2 telling the table and coaches something and then me telling my supervisor "Well, Bob told me he told the coach blah-blah-blah" and supervisor is saying "The coach said Bob said wonk-wonk-wonk"

I never even thought about this possibility but it's dead on accurate IMO.

Tref: Does the R do a game report for Sweet 16 games around here?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

I never even thought about this possibility but it's dead on accurate IMO.

Tref: Does the R do a game report for Sweet 16 games around here?

Think about your situation with the 3 point alley oop, you guys had 2 seperate convos & words were twisted & confusion was the result.
You dont think things get twisted from one official to coach conference to the next? Many people have said to take someone to the table with you when correcting something so significant in my situation & also have a partner present when telling the coaches what we have & how play will resume!

Game report? This is HS basketball
We didnt even have an observer & boy do I wish we had
I felt as though people that stopped by the lockerroom last night shared my same thoughts, but didnt want to ruffle any feathers.
I did complete my evaluation of partners on Arbiter though & I was quite honest.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

Think about your situation with the 3 point alley oop, you guys had 2 seperate convos & words were twisted & confusion was the result.

Most definitely!

Originally Posted by tref

Game report? This is HS basketball
We didnt even have an observer & boy do I wish we had
I felt as though people that stopped by the lockerroom last night shared my same thoughts, but didnt want to ruffle any feathers.
I did complete my evaluation of partners on Arbiter though & I was quite honest.

I had no problem giving my honest opinion. We can't get better unless our peers give us honest feedback. If I can do something better it does me no good if nobody ever tells me. So I respect the guys in the locker room enough to give honest feedback.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tref

Okay, so as the R on the game I'm not wrong for:

1. Expecting the crew to stick to the pregame?

2. Holding up the C (U2) from going to the table?

3. Making sure I know what we have before proceeding?

Couldn't believe they said by doing those things I created a game interrupter!
Had we stuck to the script it would've been much smoother.

I gave the C my toss to create a team atmosphere as he was the vet & I can tell he doesnt appreciate not being the R when we work together.
My pregame was stomped on by the C & many officials in the stands have said it looked as though the C was trying to take over the game well before that situation came up.

I work with the T again on Saturday & that's cool, but I dont know how to move forward with the C. he obviously doesnt respect what I do or he just says whether I'm the R or not, I'm running this game.
Thoughts?

Game interrupter, my a$$.

Last night we had a basket that made the game a 3 point game with 4 seconds left. *Both* teams asked for a timeout and I granted it to the team closest to me -- the team going on defense. Only problem was that the clock continued to run and the other team inbounded the ball and by the time I was able to get everything stopped, a full second had come off the clock. (I'm really glad I looked up and got the time when I granted the timeout, BTW.)

I went to my partner and told him what I was going to do, went to the table and gave my instructions to set the clock to 4 seconds, then went to *both* head coaches and told them. I even answered a question by an assistant (that was actually a good question). Game interrupter? My a$$. Everyone was entitled to know exactly why I was doing what I was doing. Your "partner" had no business putting time back on the clock without letting you and the third know exactly what he was doing and why. If you were asked by a coach after he puts time back up and you don't know why....that's just horrible.

This is the time when you want to make sure that absolutely everything is right. If you are the R on the game and you have a critical piece of information that changes how things would be administered, how do you think *that's* going to look to a supervisor/evaluator?

A comment like that simply pi$$es me off and I wasn't even there.

[tref]

Toren, I appreciate you keeping it real with me about that as well as the things I could've done better! But I was talking about DH & the family members of the T that stopped by briefly. I could tell they felt the same way & I'm sure Sr will address Jr & I about it in Saturdays pregame. I just needed confirmation that my thought process was correct... got it from the Forum as well as 2 of our Big 4.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by Toren

My thoughts are in a end of the game situation all officials need to know the situation. Don't wait to be beckoned in though or expect it, even though you pregamed it, just know that all officials need to have the information and go get it.

Nothing worse than being the "odd man out" when decision is being made and you have definite knowledge of what the correct ruling should be. Get in there quickly and make sure the ruling in correct...and be assertive about it if your are 100%.