shoe laces
 

NFHS

A1 has the ball in the backcourt and is slowly advancing to the frontcourt. As A1 crosses the division line, I notice B2 kneeling down to tie a shoe near A's basket. As trail I blow my whistle, let B2 tie the shoe and have team A inbound the ball near the division line. Partner says I should not have stopped play. Is he right? Rules reference always appreciated?

You won't find a rules reference.

No you will not find a rules reference and your partner was right.

Peace

A lot of people will tell you that your partner is correct. I've always had the opinion, though, that if the game can be stopped at a point where nothing is happening (A1 slowly walking the ball up the floor or standing and dribbling in the frontcourt), stop the game and prevent any injury.

But if Team A is into their offense, I wouldn't stop play. Use your best judgement about this. It's why we get paid mucho dinero.

In ms, I'll delay a throw in. But I won't stop play. In high school, they need to know how to tie a knot.

If you don't believe your partner, check with your assigner.

What do you do with the player that does not tie his shoes and stuffs the laces in the shoe and one of the shoes comes off every other trip down the floor. :)

I'd tell him to tie his shoes or get off the floor.

Nothing...he can either ask for a timeout or hold his team up while he puts his shoe back on. If play is stopped for some other reason, and the shoe is off/shoelaces untied, that would be the only time I would hold up play.

Ignore it, let him get beat. I'm not his coach.

When they cannot participate in the game because they are fumbling with their shoe, I would think a coach will take them out of the game or they will learn to tie a knot.

Peace

Phansen:

You will not find a rule reference but your partner was correct.

Prior to the 1963-64 season, National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada (NBCUSC) Rules (note: The NBCUSC was the basketball rules writing body for boys'/girls' high school and men's college prior to being split into the NFHS and NCAA Men's Rules Committees in the late 1970's.) allowed game officials to stop the game or to prevent a Dead Ball (DB) from becoming a Live Ball (LB) so that a player could tie his/her shoe. Starting with the 1963-64 season this provision was intentionally deleted from Rule 2. The Rules Committee, in an editorial comment, stated that the provision was deleted because the Committee did not want officials to stop the game or delay a DB from becoming LB so that a player could tie his/her shoe. The effect of this rule change is that officials by rule cannot stop the game or delay a DB from becoming LB so that a player can tie his/her shoe.

If one goes to the current NFHS Basketball Handbook and go to the chapter on the history of the rules changes, one will see the change listed in 1964. This rules change is still valid for both NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Rules.

MTD, Sr.

You'll notice that the rule for stopping play includes eyeglasses or lenses. If they wanted us to stop games for tying shoes, it would be written in the rules -- it's not an uncommon occurrence.

I had a partner stop a varsity game earlier this season and when he asked for feedback, I made sure I included that.

Had a partner stop a game last week for a hung net. He asked for feedback, and I forgot to mention it.

Wait, are you saying we don't stop the game for a hung net? I have always been taught to stop the game and fix it. Was this ever a rule to stop the game? Where does this rational come from?

(Sorry if this becomes a thread hijack.)

You may do it the first time it happens. You might even do it the second time it happens. But if you keep doing that, then it is not your issue. BTW, the NF gave an interpretation about this a few years ago and said that you should not spend the entire game fixing the net no more than you should stop play to get a shoe tied.

Peace

There it is.

Twice, I've been asked by a coach to stop play for an untied shoe. Both found it ridiculous that I wouldn't.

I can only deduce from this that others around me are doing so. I just don't agree. Tie your shoes, or play at your own risk.

I find it interesting that we require substitutions for untucked shirts (something we don't enforce for off-season games not assigned by our board), then perhaps we should also consider it for untied shoes.

I can tell you I'd do that before I stop the game. This one polices itself, though, once you refuse to stop the game.

Catchy Tune, Pink Shoe Laces ...
 

Please don't delete this. If any of you guys choose to open this link, I guarantee that you'll be humming this song all night long, and maybe you'll wake up humming it tomorrow morning.

Dodie Stevens - Tan Shoes and Pink Shoelaces (Live) - YouTube

I had a JV Coach ask me to stop play for his kid's untied shoe...guy actually said "Hey, we need a ref's timeout for him to tie his shoe!"

Blew the whistle, and then asked him if he wanted a full or 30.

Kid's shoe was not a problem the rest of that game.

Billy
 

REALLY????

Peace

I was shocked!

I do....the net is not in its required position, according to rule 1-10-1, if it is hung up on the rim. And everyone I've ever worked with around here does the same.

I could be off base, but I wait for the next legit whistle.

I don't think it is fair for a team to have to shoot into a basket where the net might be obstructing the entrance to the basket.

That's the issue: if a team shoots into that basket and the ball bounces out because the net is all messed up, that team loses 2 or 3 points since a goal doesn't count unless the ball passes through the net. Better to take care of it right when it happens.

Have you ever seen that happen? Ever? Game? Warm-ups? Practice?

I've never seen it, while I have seen the ball actually go through and "un-stick" a stuck net many times.

I've been taught to never stop the game for a net because it gives the team that just scored the advantage of setting up their defense because you've stopped the game at that point. And that would happen far more times than the ball coming back out. In many of my games, while the game goes to the other end of the court, someone runs over and takes care of it. Or, there is a stoppage of play before the ball gets back to that end.

I agree, it would be a real shame if the ball ever did come back out as a result. And, thanks a lot, now it will probably happen to me. :rolleyes: :D

+1

Yes, I've seen it. It was hung up so much that no ball was going to get through. It took a ladder to get up there and unhook it. Even a roller would be affected by the bumping the twine that is laying across the top of the rim...it may make a shot go in that would not have or it may make a shot miss that would have gone it.

The team doesn't make the net get hung up, so any advantage they get is just a part of the game. And most of the time, the other team isn't pushing the tempo while they are wanting to press anyway so stopping it has no effect at all.

All Night Long ...
 

Is the song stuck in your head?

Anybody Got A Citation ???
 

Agree. C'mon Nevadaref. Now go do that voodoo that you do so well.

Me too, but I did so once because it was the most interesting thing that happened in that game.

Check with your assignor. Around here, our HS assignor wants us to err on the side of caution. If the game can be stopped without putting a team at a disadvantage we are instructed to do so.

Good discussion here, it is also a sign that the net needs to be replaced.

I'v also been taught not to stop the game to fix the net.

But if the defender was behind the play to tie his shoe, aren't you putting A at a disadvantage by preventing what had become a 5 on 4?

No.

Peace

No, but my empty "Ignore List" may get one bigger soon.

Well, there you go - 1 isolated event in 2 officials' lifetimes. Still not enough for me to warrant stopping a game every time a net gets stuck. Especially since I haven't seen a rule, case play, or mention in the official's manual that backs stopping live play for this. Fix it during the next dead ball.

Of course, check with your local assignor or association to see if there's a policy.

And It Was Barely On Topic, Just Barely ...
 

Hey. I gave you all a choice. You didn't have to open up the link. In my post, and in the title of the post, I described what the link was all about. And I purposely didn't embed the link so as not to put the video "right in anybody's face". It was a cute, catchy, novelty song about shoe laces. What harm could have come from it. And for someone of my advanced age, Dodie Stevens is hot, and a Mom. I'm just not sure if she's single.

To answer your question: No. Read my first post (#11) in this thread.

MTD, Sr.

With regard to the net hanging up on the rim.
 

I agree with Camron (another shot at your credibility, :D) that the net's proper position is not hanging up on the rim and therefore can not do the job for which it is designed to do, and that is to check the ball. I think that Camron and I have a difference of opinion as to when is the correct time to stop the game to correct the equipment malfunction.

Rut is correct that Mary Struckhoff of the NFHS issued a ruling a few years ago with regard to a net hung up on a net. Without climbing up into the attic (Nevada, I am sure you can find and post her ruling for us) I believe that her ruling said, and I am paraphrasing here: If A1's successful FGA causes the net to hangup on the basket ring, the game officials should wait until Team A is again in possession of the ball before stopping the game to fix the net. The reasoning is that to stop the game immediately could stop a fast-break attempt by Team B. If my memory serves me correctly, the NCAA came out with a ruling at about the same time requiring schools to have someone at each basket that could fix the net while the ball was still in play at the other end of the court.

From a historical standpoint, over the years I have had a number of interpreters and officials, who were all considerably older than me, tell me that the NFHS and NCAA interpretation going back to the NBCUSC rules was the same ruling that Mary Struckhoof gave a few years back. I have never been able to find any written corroboration of their statements, but I have no reason to doubt them.

It is my humble opinion that this will be a problem that will always good judgement by the game officials as to when to stop the game to fix the problem so as to not deny a team a goal scoring opportunity (yikes, a soccer phrase, :eek:).

MTD, Sr.