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[BillyMac]

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Originally Posted by Brad

Seriously, if this really happened and you gave a tech for that, that is awful.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Don't tell him to take it off. Just tell him that the can't play with it on.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

While I'm not crazy about the rule, the official administrated it correctly. It would have been better if he had told the coach that the player had to leave the gym to change. But the rule is the rule, and once the kid takes off the jersey.

10-3-H: A player shall not: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

I'm not crazy about the rule either. I believe that the intent, and purpose, of this rule was to define a penalty for the player that removes his jersey in disgust, typically after fouling out, rather than penalizing a player for adjusting his uniform, and equipment, so that he can legally enter the game.

Scrapper1: When you note an illegal undershirt when a player is in the pregame layup line, do you always "remind" the player to leave the gym to remove the illegal equipment?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I believe that the intent, and purpose, of this rule was to define a penalty for the player that removes his jersey in disgust, typically after fouling out, rather than penalizing a player for adjusting his uniform, and equipment, so that he can legally enter the game.

Exactly!!

The situation described above was NEVER something that was trying to be "addressed" by this rule. The problem we have is twofold: rules that are not written clearly and officials that lack any common sense.

[Adam]

My common sense tells me to ignore this, but we've been told specifically to call it if we fail to prevent it (similar, in that regard, to the 6 player T).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I believe that the intent, and purpose, of this rule was to define a penalty for the player that removes his jersey in disgust, typically after fouling out, rather than penalizing a player for adjusting his uniform, and equipment, so that he can legally enter the game.

Originally Posted by Brad

Exactly!!

Oh ... My ... God ... Three correct posts in two days. I only wish that my Dad was alive to see this. Too bad that I'm on my way to work a prep school game, or I would hang around to go for the record. "Tough tarts" to all you guys that have put me on your ignore list. To you guys, I say, "Na Na Na Na Na". Wait? You can't see this. Never mind.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Oh ... My ... God ... Three correct posts in two days. I only wish that my Dad was alive to see this. Too bad that I'm on my way to work a prep school game, or I would hang around to go for the record. "Tough tarts" to all you guys that have put me on your ignore list. To you guys, I say, "Na Na Na Na Na". Wait? You can't see this. Never mind.

I think you're going to find that a lot of people don't think that me agreeing with you equals "correct"

[Scuba_ref]

MS 8th grade girls game; I call a foul on the follow through of an attempted shot block. Picture the defender's arms coming down on the shooter and then springing back to a vertical position.

Coach pulls her out of the game and the player says to the coach my arms were straight up. To which the coach replies, "are you kidding me, if you had a meat cleaver she would be dead!"

I'm still laughing about that one.

[PaREF]

Originally Posted by Brad

Exactly!!

The situation described above was NEVER something that was trying to be "addressed" by this rule. The problem we have is twofold: rules that are not written clearly and officials that lack any common sense.

While it may be that the rule encompasses players removing their uniforms in disgust, the main purpose of the rule was to address players changing from warmups to uniforms at the beginning of games. When the NFHS added this rule, it was added for all sports, not just basketball.

Not that long ago, players often warmed up wearing one shirt while leaving their uniform on the bench. After warmups and prior to the start of the game, they would go to the bench, remove their warmup shirt, and then don their uniform shirt. It seems that there enough complaints from spectators, parents, etc. who were "offended" by the sight of so much skin that the NFHS decided to incorporate the rule about not removing uniform shirts within the visual confines of the court/field.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PaREF

While it may be that the rule encompasses players removing their uniforms in disgust, the main purpose of the rule was to address players changing from warmups to uniforms at the beginning of games. When the NFHS added this rule, it was added for all sports, not just basketball.

Not that long ago, players often warmed up wearing one shirt while leaving their uniform on the bench. After warmups and prior to the start of the game, they would go to the bench, remove their warmup shirt, and then don their uniform shirt. It seems that there enough complaints from spectators, parents, etc. who were "offended" by the sight of so much skin that the NFHS decided to incorporate the rule about not removing uniform shirts within the visual confines of the court/field.

I officiated my first games 18 years ago, and played hs ball from the late 80s through early 90s. I have never, not once, seen or heard of a basketball team doing this. By my education, "often" requires at least once. Maybe we have different definitions, or at least different definitions of "not that long ago." But this rule is far more recent than my high school days, so I would need some more evidence to buy into the idea that the rule was for that purpose.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by PaREF

While it may be that the rule encompasses players removing their uniforms in disgust, the main purpose of the rule was to address players changing from warmups to uniforms at the beginning of games.

2005-06 NFHS Comments on the Rules Revisions: The former uniform rule did not require team members to actually wear their team uniform. The addition also addresses a growing behavioral concern of players removing their jerseys to demonstrate frustration, anger, and as a means of attracting individual attention. The rule is intended to be applied in all situations, even when a player must change uniforms due to blood or other unusual circumstances. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to go to their locker rooms to change their jerseys.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Brad

The situation described above was NEVER something that was trying to be "addressed" by this rule. The problem we have is twofold: rules that are not written clearly and officials that lack any common sense.

Unfortunately, Brad, you're simply mistaken. The rule was NOT intended to address unsporting actions. We have rules to cover that. The rule was intended to prevent kids from changing at the bench.

From the '05-'06 interpretations (thanks again to Nevadaref for posting them):

SITUATION 3: Team A is leading 62-60 when the horn sounds to end the game. A1 then removes his/her jersey near the team bench (a) before the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area; or (b) after the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area. RULING: In (a), A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws; if both are successful, overtime will be played. In (b), since the officials' jurisdiction has ended, no penalty is assessed. (3-4-15; 2-2-4; 10-4-1h)

SITUATION 4: During the pregame warm-up, the 12 members of Team A are wearing warm-up tops, but not their team jerseys. Approximately one minute prior to the opening jump ball, the 12 Team A members go to the team bench, remove the warm-up tops and put on the team jerseys. RULING: One technical foul is charged to Team A, and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach. COMMENT: In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)