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Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 820709)

Apples and oranges. Football allows 'live ball' substitutions (between downs), basketball does not.

In basketball:
1) you don't let the ball become live if a team has 4 (or 6) players on the court.
2) If a 6th player enters during a live ball, you have a technical foul.
3) If a player leaves the court (for an unauthorized reason) during a live (or dead) ball, you have a technical foul.

In football:
1) you don't let a ball become live on a free kick if there are not 11 players on the field for each team.
2) If a 12th player enters during a down or if there are more then 11 players participating at the start of a down, you have a foul (illegal subsitution or illegal participation, depending on the ruleset and exact circumstances).
3) If a player leaves the field during a down, you have no penalty (unless he returns during the same down and participates or he was blocked out of bounds and returns at the earliest opportunity).

You're trying to compare basketball situation 1 to football situation 2. In situation 1, football and basketball are identical.

Question as this has come up a lot since the game. After the Giants got flagged for that 12 man penalty if they had done it again on the next play would it have been unsportsman-like conduct penalty or just another 5-yard penalty? Or after the first penalty would the officials not let the ball be ready for play if the Giants still had 12 men on the field?

Was there ever a time when having 12 men participating in the play was a different penalty than just having 12 men on the field (1 player running to get off)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 820733)

Some folks seem to think it was no accident that the Giants played that down with 12. That sounds a little conspiracy-theory to me, but it's possible. I don't know NFL rules inside and out, but I'm not aware of any "automatic" upgrade for a second offense.

In NFHS football, illegal substitution is a 5-yard penalty (think player not getting off the field before the snap), whereas if the 12th man participates, it's illegal participation, a 15-yard penalty. If the Giants' play had happened in a HS game, the foul would have been IP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw1ns (Post 820644)

The goal of every official. To NOT be noticed. Great job last night by the crew!

Forgive me but that is not true and a silly goal. They were noticed because the first call was talked about extensively this morning alone and even last night. It is not possible at that level and many other levels in the biggest games. We really need to blow up this silly myth.

Peace

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 820651)

It's sad when officials buy into this nonsense.

Are you saying I am sad :confused:

Of course I would like to be noticed for doing a great job. If I called a good game and didn't influence the outcome of the game, and go UNNOTICED, fine by me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw1ns (Post 820751)

Of course I would like to be noticed for doing a great job. If I called a good game and didn't influence the outcome of the game, and go UNNOTICED, fine by me.

The point that many recognize is that you can be criticized and do a wonderful job. And if you are on a big stage like this one or a National Championship game or even a State Finals. You do not have to want to be in a situation and be put there by the moment.

This happened to me in November and all my training and judgment came into play and it was the most talked about play in my game. I had no penalties as well, so not much I could do but to make a call. Believe me people had opinions.

Peace

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 820673)

Not a football official,

Obviously. :)

In the entire game I felt that there was only one debatable decision and it was a non-call. The play was a possible pass interference against the Pats.

The pass interferences were all correctly called.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw1ns (Post 820751)

Of course I would like to be noticed for doing a great job. If I called a good game and didn't influence the outcome of the game, and go UNNOTICED, fine by me.

But that's not what you said before. The goal is not about being noticed. The goal is to call a good game. Whether people notice you is out of your control.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 820835)

The pass interferences were all correctly called.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 820879)

But that's not what you said before. The goal is not about being noticed. The goal is to call a good game. Whether people notice you is out of your control.

I usually put it as: If you take care of the little things before they become big things, you have a better chance of not being noticed for the wrong things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 820959)

I usually put it as: If you take care of the little things before they become big things, you have a better chance of not being noticed for the wrong things.

Well unfortunately in football you can do all the little things you want and you will be put in a situation where you have to make a decision anyway. Unlike basketball we do not get a bunch of calls to cover up the one bad call we might miss. And even if we do not miss the call, there is so much ignorance about football rules we can be 1000 percent right and people think they know better. And the safety in the Super Bowl was a perfect example. There was only one time to get that play right and there were not going to be another play like it probably the entire season.

Peace