It clearly states in FED 5-6 that a quarter ends when the signal sounds. However, if time expires and the horn mechanism for whatever reason is behind by a significant amount, can the officials end the quarter if they have definite knowledge that the time has expired? I brought this up in an association meeting once and the interpreter said that the officials can end the period if they are sure time has expired. What do you all think? I usually like to follow the rule book, but if time has expired and 10 seconds later the horn still has not sounded, I have a hard time continuing play.

Well this situation is covered directly in the Rulebook and Casebook. To me that is the best way to handle this situation, because there is a clear remedy for what takes place. The only way you should not end a quarter is if you do not have definite knowledge. I really do not believe you will get a debate on this one. But I have been wrong before.

Peace

In such a case, the horn is obviously not working properly. Yes, you should end the quarter.

In a situation where the clock is stop be the timer, it displays 0:00, time has not expire. The ball should be put in play and when the clock starts, the horn should sound almost immediately. That's really what 5-6 is really addressing.

I once was in a state-quarter (playin', not reffin') with the clock broken in the first quarter. Couldn't hear any whistles, so the back-up was a knotted white towel thrown onto the floor. It worked ...sorta. :(

Was that back when you will still using peach baskets?

They had nets then. ...and hot pants and knee socks. :)

And Converse All-Stars, and Pumas!

Converse All-stars - canvas, white high-tops.
A roll of tape on each ankle.
School bought us two pair per season.

We wore "daisy dukes" and canvas cons.

This is exactly what happened in the 4A girls regional final here this past season. White is down one with the ball as time is running out. A foul was called while a player was in the act of shooting, the timer stopped the clock and despite showing all zeros no horn sounded. The clock in this gym does NOT display tenths of a second.
Sadly, the three officials botched it. Two of them came together and discussed the play, confirmed that neither heard a horn, and decided to shoot the two free throws with the lane cleared. The third official, the only female in the crew, had no part in the play or discussion at all.
The girl made the first, missed the second, and the game eventually was decided in double OT.
I was disappointed to see that the officials selected for the regional final didn't know the rule.

Nevadaref,

If I understand what you're saying, you disagree with Rut? You're saying the officials should have called the game over? What are we saying here? Is the period over if the officials have knowledge, or are we going with the horn?

No, that's not what he's saying. He saying that the FTs should have been shot WITH PLAYERS ON THE LANE, not with a clear lane.

2 pair of sneakers, tape...or ankles?

Yes.

There has been no disagreement in response to your situation, excluding Rut since I have no idea what he means, can't follow the double negatives. The solution is to go with the horn, but there can only be 9 tenths of a sec. remaining at the most, so if it clearly goes more than a second you should declare the quarter over. You should not just keep playing for five-ten seconds, just because the horn is not sounding.

I will remember that the next time you tell me what attitudes I should have on this board and in officiating in general. But then again, you seem to follow those posts very well. I will worry about (what you think) are double negatives when you become a better official than I. ;)

Peace

Yo, Rut.
 

Need a hug? :cool:

Noooooooooo!!!
 

No, just find it funny someone can make a cheap shot, but when I say something they do not like, they are running their mouth about how wrong I am. Actually it was rather funny to me. You just cannot convey that on a computer screen, no matter how many smiles you display. :rolleyes:

Peace

Thank you, Tony. Yes, this is exactly why they were wrong in this game. A foul or violation could have occurred during the free throws if they had correctly allowed the players to be along the lane. Also, in this gym because of the style of clock used, a player could have rebounded the missed second free throw and possibly scored on a catch and shoot, if that player could release the shot before the horn. In most other gyms only a tap could score.
In short, it is important to review those rules on when a quarter ends. They can be a bit tricky and you don't want it to screw up a big game that you do.

Sometimes I don't understand why the Federation won't follow the NCAA, NBA, and FIBA's lead and mandate tenths of a second in the final minute. The major manufacturers already have adopted tenths and some scoreboards are under $2,000. Daktronics and Trans-Lux have been making tenths units since 1989 as they were in the NBA (Daktronics, White Way, and Barco are the three major brands used in the NBA), so the first generation of older bulb units will be for sale soon for smaller schools as larger schools give away their units in favor of the newer LED types (all new units are LED), which cost much less in the long run because of the power usage. They can also retrofit the boards.

Furthermore, the red light rule could be instituted where a red light on the basket or clock could be used to signal the end of period when the horn does not sound. That solution does not cost more than $500.

Cost, cost, cost! Schools don't have enough money to buy books or pay teachers. That's why the NFHS doesn't require clocks with tenths. That's also why you won't see a shot clock mandated anytime soon. Red lights are already required, but they only light up when the horn sounds.

Not to mention the fact that most HS timekeepers are not consistent or skilled enough to make it worth the expenditure...

Red lights aren't required in Fed - they're just "allowed."

Bobby, money is crucial in schools nowadays.

Until we can get a 3rd official on games (on average $500-700/season), you won't see a $500 red light solution.

My apologies. In NC, they're required.

Have you ever had problems with the lights turning on during either a dunk or hitting the rim/backboard really hard (shot or hand)? I'm wondering if it is a local problem or with all of the lights . . .