What's a poor lead to do?

[Back In The Saddle]

This happened to me at least three times in a game last night. Working lead, I'm wide of the key. The offense splits the defense, leaving the lane wide open. Point guard breaks to the bucket from the top of the key and I suddenly realize that...

1. There are at least four bodies between me and the guy driving with the ball blocking my view

2. Some are defenders who just got burned and are likely to be swiping at the ball and the guy's hands/arms

3. I'm likely to miss something big and obvious if I can't get under the basket in about 0.01 seconds.

4. I'm not going to make it.

Dang!

Does this happen to anybody else? What can I do to be on top of this one? Is it just a matter of anticipating the play? Or are my mechanics probably flawed and I just need to make a change?

I hope this makes sense.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
This happened to me at least three times in a game last night. Working lead, I'm wide of the key. The offense splits the defense, leaving the lane wide open. Point guard breaks to the bucket from the top of the key and I suddenly realize that...

1. There are at least four bodies between me and the guy driving with the ball blocking my view

2. Some are defenders who just got burned and are likely to be swiping at the ball and the guy's hands/arms

3. I'm likely to miss something big and obvious if I can't get under the basket in about 0.01 seconds.

4. I'm not going to make it.

Dang!

Does this happen to anybody else? What can I do to be on top of this one? Is it just a matter of anticipating the play? Or are my mechanics probably flawed and I just need to make a change?

I hope this makes sense.

mmmm....if the ball is at the top of the key then you need to start closing down (stepping to the lane line extended on your side, what some peple call "b" position). This tells your partner at T (assume 2 man) that you have the lane and he should go wide to cover your side better, it gets you a better look and it prepares you to step across the lane (position "c") to the opposite side lane line if the ball is kicked or dribbled there & settles. Also, don't be afraid to take a step into the paint area to get a *great* look when the ball and 5 bodies are under the basket.

[cmathews]

anyone who says they haven't been here might be fibbing a little. I find that in gyms where it is possible being off of the endline 5-6 feet helps. It helps with angles then you only have to move a little to get the view....in boxed in gyms ya have to take your chances. I find that trying to move over into the key doesn't really help the view, sometimes being a little wider helps in this one too again the angles....and in WY we have plenty of places where you don't have any room on the endline....

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Also, don't be afraid to take a step into the paint area to get a *great* look when the ball and 5 bodies are under the basket.

In the immortal words of The Chairman of the Board, while hosting "The Sinatra Group" on SNL -- "Ya had me, then ya lost me".

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

In the immortal words of The Chairman of the Board, while hosting "The Sinatra Group" on SNL -- "Ya had me, then ya lost me".

It's like this Frankie...we are now allowed to (some say encouraged to) take a step or 2 into the area under the basket to get a better look. Used to be strictly verboten, a real no-class kinda move, sorta like Joey Bishop trying to sing "Strangers in the Night", ya dig? - do-be-do-be-do and like that. But now it's like koo-koo crazy & it really swings to beat the band. Luck will be your lady tonight if you get hip to it big daddy.

Kapish?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
we are now allowed to (some say encouraged to) take a step or 2 into the area under the basket to get a better look.

Hmmmm, not the way I heard it. My understanding is that we are now allowed to take a step or two into the lane, but then step back without completing the rotation, if the ball seems to be coming back at us. I don't think stepping into the lane is to get a look. It's just allowing us to rethink whether we really want that rotation. Whereas previously we were told, once you start, you must cross the lane.

Am I confused? About this, specifically, I mean. I realize that I'm confused about a lot of things. But is this one of them?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Hmmmm, not the way I heard it. My understanding is that we are now allowed to take a step or two into the lane, but then step back without completing the rotation, if the ball seems to be coming back at us. I don't think stepping into the lane is to get a look. It's just allowing us to rethink whether we really want that rotation. Whereas previously we were told, once you start, you must cross the lane.

Am I confused? About this, specifically, I mean. I realize that I'm confused about a lot of things. But is this one of them?

Maybe you're not confused maybe you're being told to apply this differently than I am. "If you have to, get in there to get a better look" sums it up, but of course be reasonable about it. And yes, it grew out of "it's OK to hesitate if the ball does something you didn't expect it to do". Anyway I added that because not everyone accepts that under the basket is NOT quicksand and should be avoided at all costs, and because I hoped it would start a flame war.

All it did was get me to trot out my Sinatra impersonation...Myyyyyyyy kind of town, Chicago is....

[Back In The Saddle]

Dan_ref, your reply sounds to me like exactly what I need. Thank you. May I pose some follow-up questions?

Originally posted by Dan_ref
mmmm....if the ball is at the top of the key then you need to start closing down (stepping to the lane line extended on your side, what some peple call "b" position).

Okay, let's take this slowly, since that is how I think. Picture Pooh bear..."think, think, think"

First of all, I am working 2 whistle, so the assumption is valid.

Second, let me see if I understand the a b cs. If b position is at my lane line extended, and c is the far lane line extended, then where is a position? Is it out near my-side 3 pt. line extended?

Assuming the above about a position, when the ball swings wide, I should be moving out to a? As the ball moves toward the top of the key, I should begin closing down to b? I should be moving back and forth as the ball moves? Where should I be when the ball is on the far side of the lane?

If I am at b position, should I still let my partner have the first call on any drives from his side? How about c position?

This tells your partner at T (assume 2 man) that you have the lane and he should go wide to cover your side better, it gets you a better look

So the trail's primary then becomes everything except the lane? Or at least he extends his area to include my non-lane primary?

What do you mean by the T going wide? Since we are "boxing in," do you mean back further toward backcourt to get a wider view? More over toward the middle? Surely not further away from my side?

and it prepares you to step across the lane (position "c") to the opposite side lane line if the ball is kicked or dribbled there & settles.

Under what circumstances would I want to go to c position? I have heard discussion about coming to c position (and further) to get a look at the post play when the ball is coming from that side. It sounds like you're describing a situation when the ball goes there. Do I only want to go to c if the ball is right there?

If I go to c position, how should T respond? Have I initiated a kind of switch? Or are we simply both working strong side?

If it's not a switch, then I would guess that I'm headed back to b or a as soon as the situation that brought me to c position is "resolved?"

Also, don't be afraid to take a step into the paint area to get a *great* look when the ball and 5 bodies are under the basket.

Warning: Ignorance and fear at work. My fear here is that I'd potentially get myself trapped in the middle of a play. Or worse, become somebody's screen. So I would want to limit this to only those plays coming straight at the basket, perhaps?

This all sounds a little like taking-it-to-the-next-level mechanics to me. Should I be overly concerned if my partner isn't paying attention to my position and adjusting?

Where can I go to read up on all of this? I don't recall the NFHS mechanics book covering this kind of movement with the ball. Perhaps it's there and I just missed it? Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last. Feel free to give me the old RTFM, if I deserve it!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Dan_ref, your reply sounds to me like exactly what I need. Thank you. May I pose some follow-up questions?

Okay, let's take this slowly, since that is how I think. Picture Pooh bear..."think, think, think"

Yes, as lead you should "mirror the ball" -- that is, work just outside the ball's position relative to the end-line.

If the ball is wide, you're wide, if the ball is in the middle, you're near the paint.

If the ball is on the opposite side and players are posting up on the far side, you can go take a look at the post play (some associations frown on this).

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Dan_ref, your reply sounds to me like exactly what I need. Thank you. May I pose some follow-up questions?

No! Now go away or I'll taunt you some more!

Second, let me see if I understand the a b cs. If b position is at my lane line extended, and c is the far lane line extended, then where is a position? Is it out near my-side 3 pt. line extended?

generally no, the 3 pt line is way to wide for A IMO. Think more like a good 3 to 4 ft or so in from there & you're about right for 2 man. In 2 man I will go out to the 3 pt line but that's only when the ball is settled & pressured on that sideline. And I pregame this, tell my partner he's got the rest of the floor while I look for OOB.
A's kinda your starting position, the ball is moving down the court or is not being pushed in the front court. From there you can watch the lane, your side & keep tabs on ball location.

Assuming the above about a position, when the ball swings wide, I should be moving out to a? As the ball moves toward the top of the key, I should begin closing down to b? I should be moving back and forth as the ball moves? Where should I be when the ball is on the far side of the lane?

If I am at b position, should I still let my partner have the first call on any drives from his side? How about c position?

As Bob said mirror the ball, but do so gracefully - as you incorporate this into your game you might start to look like a yo-yo, but that's OK, you will get the feel.
2 man primary still applies: T has his side of the floor up to the lane line and dual coverage in the paint on drives from T's area. You do not go to C to referee his side of the floor - you're there to get a good look at the post action on that side.

This tells your partner at T (assume 2 man) that you have the lane and he should go wide to cover your side better, it gets you a better look

So the trail's primary then becomes everything except the lane? Or at least he extends his area to include my non-lane primary?

What do you mean by the T going wide? Since we are "boxing in," do you mean back further toward backcourt to get a wider view? More over toward the middle? Surely not further away from my side?
[/quote]

yep, you got it. The T moves to get a better view of your side of the lane to referee pushes, holds and also rebounding action (other than over the back which is the T's primary responsibility anyway) that you are now most likely screened from.

Under what circumstances would I want to go to c position? I have heard discussion about coming to c position (and further) to get a look at the post play when the ball is coming from that side. It sounds like you're describing a situation when the ball goes there. Do I only want to go to c if the ball is right there?

Go to c when:

- there's a low post matchup you need to referee regardless of where the ball is (not typical but it happens)
- the ball has settled on that side & you don't have a good look of a play that is likely to develop on that side

Don't go to c if the player with the ball is about to shoot or is about to drive or is driving the basket - ie you can see their face or they are driving.

If you're at c get back to your side quickly on a made shot in case there's defensive pressure or the team scored on is going to push the ball.

If I go to c position, how should T respond? Have I initiated a kind of switch? Or are we simply both working strong side?

2 man = no rotation, certainly not a switch. you are working strong side, he is covering the area you left. remember, he's still responsible for his side line & action on his side, you're at c to referee the post. You are also still responsible for your sideline & the entire endline. A good T should be able to help on OOB calls that you miss. That's why it is important that the T gets a good position, he's got a lot to cover!

If it's not a switch, then I would guess that I'm headed back to b or a as soon as the situation that brought me to c position is "resolved?"

you got it! and this includes a made basket or turn over.

Also, don't be afraid to take a step into the paint area to get a *great* look when the ball and 5 bodies are under the basket.

Warning: Ignorance and fear at work. My fear here is that I'd potentially get myself trapped in the middle of a play. Or worse, become somebody's screen. So I would want to limit this to only those plays coming straight at the basket, perhaps?

[/quote]

oops, my mistake. when I said go into the paint I was referring to the area OOB directly behind & under the basket. As Chuck pointed out you can be aggressive about this (go into this area to get a good look) or not be aggressive (take a step into the area anticipating that you are going to c. used to be if you took that step you had committed to going to c, now you can step back). In any event keep your @ss off the playing floor! )

This all sounds a little like taking-it-to-the-next-level mechanics to me. Should I be overly concerned if my partner isn't paying attention to my position and adjusting?

Where can I go to read up on all of this? I don't recall the NFHS mechanics book covering this kind of movement with the ball. Perhaps it's there and I just missed it? Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last. Feel free to give me the old RTFM, if I deserve it!

Pregame this. Tell your partner you're experimenting with these new techniques. Have him try it too.

Find a good camp & go there. Watch some of the vets in your area, I would be surprised if they did not use this technique in their 2 man games. Have someone come watch you. Watch 3 man games, a lot of the same reasoning for going ball side position apply. Much of this is covered in the 3 man manuals (NFHS & CCA), take a look there. As you watch games try & anticipate where the ball is going - there's only so many things a trained offense can do, regardless of what the coaches will tell you!

[mick]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Yes, as lead you should "mirror the ball" -- that is, work just outside the ball's position relative to the end-line.

If the ball is wide, you're wide, if the ball is in the middle, you're near the paint.

If the ball is on the opposite side and players are posting up on the far side, you can go take a look at the post play (some associations frown on this).

I'm with you, Bob.
Do you ever stand in the quicksand? Not me.
Have you ever heard of positions a,b,c of a diamond? Not me.
Sounds like a parochial Eastern thing.
mick

[Back In The Saddle]

Wow, sounds like I've got a few things to work into my game. I appreciate all of the comments from everyone, especially Dan_ref. That was a lot of questions to have to answer