JV Games
 

Before my varsity game last night, I decided to arrive early to the game and observe the JV game.

First call, L makes the call opposite paint and calls a block, player was standing there in LGP and the offensive player took 3 or 4 steps ad bull dozed him. Okay, his angle is different than mine, maybe he saw something else.

Second call, held ball, and then a little scuffle after between the two players involved in the held ball. The official says to the scoretable "I have a dead ball double personal foul".

At this point I decided to go get changed, I had seen enough. Not sure why I got so frustrated, but I was extremely frustrated at this point.


And then in my game, I kicked a pretty insignificant call, but I won't repeat that mistake. Player catches the ball and loses his balance, he reaches down with his offhand and balances himself. So he has two feet on ground, one hand on ground. It didn't look proper, so I tweet and signal travel. Nobody said anything, but as soon as I made the call, I'm questioning it. Halftime comes, nobody says anything and I had forgotten to check with my partners. I go home and I remember that I didn't like that call, look it up. Bam, 4-44-5, I was dead wrong. Ugh, well at least if that was the worst call I had all night, I'm alrigh I guess. Won't repeat that mistake.

I hear ya.

Any chance you can reach out to these officials regarding what they had wrong?

Yeah I am going to, I'm a newer official and didn't want to come across like I'm better than them. I did get some advice from one of my veteran partners last night, who said I can phrase it, "Can I offer you a suggestion...".

I do want to help them get better but I felt uncomfortable just offering it without being asked. I think that wording will work for me though.

Mentoring Moment? Or Not?
 

Would you agree that sublevel officials fall primarily into two categories?
1) those "on their way up and eager", and
2) those "on their way down and out."

Without being unjustifiably judgmental, in which category might you deem the official(s) you mentioned fall?

We had a crew in the JV game before ours last night which included a girl, a recent college graduate, which the assignor asked if I'd go observe if I had the chance. Wow! Talk about "on the way up and eager!" After the game she stepped up and asked her partner and the varsity crew what they saw and if they had any comments and suggestions "to help me get better." What a stark contrast to some of the "Slinkies" that dot the sublevel landscape (cf. tagline of regular poster for definition of a "Slinky")!

Our assignor asks us to make a point of observing the JV action, whatever we can arrange to watch, and report back to him our findings so he can keep his finger on the pulse of those in both categories, aside from the games he's able to personally observe himself. The JV officials know this, thus many of them invite the input between games. Others avoid the subject like the plague--obvious category 2 members.

Did you have an opportunity for a "mentoring moment" after the game? Or was it a category 2 situation where you either knew it wouldn't have done any good or wouldn't have been welcome?

One fell in the 1st category and I wanted to discuss some things with him. The other fell under the 2nd category.

There was a brief opportunity to talk to the 1st official, but I didn't know how to approach him. I know him from camp and we've been doing it the same amount of time. I felt I could have said a few helpful things but didn't feel comfortable doing it. I believe I will send him an email though and offer him some suggestions.

Hate it when that happens and its always after you blow the whistle in my case when I remember something I read on here.

With the folks I work with I usually start with "You're doing a great job out there and I have a couple of suggestions that will make you an even better ref. Want to hear them?" Well first off don't run backwards, its just a matter of time before you injure yourself. I noticed on the jump you left your whistle in your mouth while throwing up the ball. I would practice spitting your whistle out and then throwing the ball. Some refs have lost some teeth due to the whistle in their mouth. Etc...

I might add:

3) those that are there because of their abilities (they can be content or not, or agree with this status or not. Some may have been doing it for many yrs at this level and like the $, etc.).

May be more too.

JMO

This Might Be Worth a Try: "Pet Peeves" Segment
 

Strategy #1: One place you can feel comfortable and confident is if you're ever the designated R responsible for the pre-game. We've gained a lot -- and took the edge off the sometimes "hard-to-bring-up-the-real-need-for-improvement" hesitation that often besets the post-game period with some people by doing this:

Begin your pregame with a roundtable "Pet Peeves" segment. Here's how I usually phrase it, especially when I'm working with individuals who I know aren't the best at welcoming or inviting constructive critique.

Say, "What are your top two "pet peeves" of officiating? In other words, what things do you see other officials doing which you know aren't good -- and you hope that I'm not "one of those" during our game tonight? Have any pet peeves you'd like to mention?" (Mention, and discussion ensues...)"Those are good ones. Here's one or two I've heard some fellow officials mention.............."

And be sure to tactfully include a thing or two that you have observed that fellow official on your crew doing in the past. Of course, you don't come right out and say that. You're more adroit than that, and s/he, due to character, personality, etc., might not appreciate the sort of direct "Thou art the wo/man" approach that puts up barriers to what s/he really needs to hear.

Strategy #2: If you observe goofy stuff out of JV refs who later will be horning in on your V pregame, be sure to have a "Pet Peeve" session when they get in there and frame the constructive criticism in the context of you two or three talking together--not necessary about what you just saw, even though it is. Kinda a "being shrewd as snakes yet innocent as doves" sort of method that works. You know, like, "One thing we really don't wanna be doing tonight is rushing to make the ball live before making eye contact with each other", for example.

Both of these tactics have shown a measure of success around here. And, over time, those resistant to the direct approach are hearing what they need to hear. Especially with a smaller group of officials who sooner or later will be working on a crew together, it seems to work.

There's a third category,those who are competent, content, and comfortable at that level.

Most varsity officials here will at least catch the third quarter, if not the first half, and most JV refs will ask if they saw anything.

What if that same JV official came into the locker room and said that you blew that call. :D

How about "New and Clueless"...

I wish someone would have, because I wasn't sure. I don't mind being wrong...I definitely mind being wrong twice about the same thing.

That would have been poetic though :D

Thanks for posting that Snags.....because thats me.....to a T.

When I got into this in my late 50's, I gave myself three years to make our state board (two years is quickest you can do it) as a varsity official.
Last year, (my 3rd) after achieving the required passing score on the written exam, getting passing scores on all my in season JV game evaluations (done by V refs), I failed the end of season floor test.

After giving it my best effort for three years (and not getting any younger) I
chose to just work JV.

Working for two assignors, I work 2-3 JV (B&G) per week in my area. I am not affiliated in any way with the state board. I'm a member of NASO, I order the current NFHS Rule Book and Case Book each year, take practice tests whenever I can get access to them, read Referee, watch NFHS on-line video and spend a lot of time here trying to learn and stay abreast with rules, case book plays, interps, philosophies, mechanics, etc.
Whenever I have the occasion to work a JV game with an official who's in the process of trying to make the state board I make sure that as their partner to make every effort to help them have a good game...especially if it's a game where they are being evaluated. Good pre-game, switching on fouls, communication during time outs, etc.etc. I won't offer up any advice...that's for the board refs assigned to the V game to do.

So while I failed in my quest to earn a state patch, I do know that I'm a better referee than I was three years ago when I first started and will continue to work hard to become better....for no other reason than my own sense of professionalism and what I feel I owe my assignors and the schools who pay me to work their JV games.

So yes, I'm a content, comfortable, and IMO competent JV referee (still with a lot to learn)......no matter what preconceived notion a board official sitting in the stands waiting to work the varsity game may have of an "old" guy working a JV game.

Want to Move Here? Soon?
 

What a great point -- this third category!!! Yes, we do have a few somewhat like that, but not to the extent that you are. :)

Absolutely There are some who do it for the fun of it, and actually prefer a JV schedule rather than the commitment to V games, and which often requires later nights and less control over how far you travel. This is an avocation, not a vocation; sometimes far away basketball games at night are not compatible with one's occupation.

Others just don't think the "prestige" and extra 25 bucks is worth the aggravations associated with coaches who think they're the next Bobby Knight and fans who don't realize that the vast majority of basketball games involve average to sub-average teams, and, while the participants deserve a well-officiated game in which the players decide the outcome, the bell curve of the importance of the results peaks in the third quarter and approaches zero the minute you walk out the door.

Reffing is on the cusp of athletics, and in athletics you're supposed to aim for the highest level of competition possible. But there are very competent officials doing JV basketball who are neither auditioning nor fading and who are more skilled than some V officials.

I work JV and Freshmen because basketball is my second sport and I don't want to deal with the politics and hassle required to get varsity assignments in my area for what ultimately for me is a way to stay fit and mentally sharp when it's too cold for soccer.

In our neck of the woods officials assigned to the sub varisty games on a given day usually work both the Frosh and JV games. Many excellent officials opt for the two game checks and a schedule that typically starts at 3:30 and gets you out of the gym by 6:30. As a bonus, you're not dealing with the unfortunate circus that ofen develops around varisty contests. I don't think these are necessarily all guys or women on the way up, or the way down. More likely they are just doing something they love at a time and place and under the circumstances and conditions they choose.

I agree that this is a category some officials put themselves in, but that is a very very small minority in my experience. Or at least the small part is the guy that is so competent that they just stay at that level by their choice. Because if an official does this, they certainly are having to leave a job or other activities and get to a site earlier than a varsity official. Now they may get home earlier, but at least around here the earlier you have to leave the more traffic you have to fight. Usually in my experience the official that claims he does not want to do varsity has been not given the chance in the first place.

Peace

And/or he cannot pass the test :eek:

The testing requirements (here) are the same.

We have trainee status - failed, see ya next year
Provisional status - passed but didnt score high enough to work varsity
Passed - eligible to work all levels

If an official doesnt take the test they can sign up for all the freshman/sophmore games, in their own neighborhood, that they can handle.

One small correction:

Provisional status - allows you to work any level but you cannot work post season.

Passed - eligible to work all levels and post season

Around here the difference is only $5 on a TWO game G/B set. :eek:

I live in a community that has all large-ish schools. So a JV DH puts me Home by 6:30 when My Var games puts Me home between 9:30 and 11. Many times working a JV DH is better ball than the Mid level Varsity games I have to travel farther to work.

Nights with a non-competitive, long commute Varsity game makes Me wish I had worked a local JV set.

...my EGO doesn't let me WISH that way...;)

I was 49 when I got back into officiating. I also had veterans helping me and giving suggestions. Lots of help. One thing about the officiating deal is when the veterans suggest something to you. It is not a do as I do deal,it is a do as I say do deal. I go to several games a year with out the whistle and I see the guys that have been telling me what do, doing the same things or worse.

Yep. Same here.

Nothing Wrong With Junior Varsity ...
 

I'm neither on my way up, nor on my way down. I'm a veteran, journeyman official. I chose to work junior varsity games for many reasons. If I were to just work my varsity schedule, I would only be working a few nights a week. By choosing to allow my assignment commissioner to assign me junior varsity games, I can be out working games several nights a week, working either varsity, or junior varsity games. It's better than sitting home watching basketball on television. I help out my assignment commissioner by accepting these games. Junior varsity coaches enjoy seeing a veteran official in their games. I like working with young officials, acting as a teacher, and a mentor. I enjoy the game, the kids, my partners, etc.

I also chose to work Catholic middle school games on the weekends, for many of the same reasons.

One of my goals is to be healthy enough when I retire from my day job, in several years, to make myself available to my assignment commissioner to work 3:30 p.m. middle school games, and 4:00 p.m. high school freshman games. Having a veteran, journeyman official in those games can only be a win, win, situation. Good for the players, good for the coaches, good for young, rookie partners, and good for my assignment commissioner. And, of course, good for me.

...now here is a guy that ANY association would be proud to have!

(not so sure about ANY WIFE though);)

Revised perspective . . .
 

Sublevel officials fall primarily into THREE categories:
1) those "on their way up and eager", :) and
2) those "on their way down and out," :( and
3) those, though rare and appreciated to the utmost when discovered, at that level by choice, maintaining a healthy appreciation for mechanics, positioning, rules knowledge, and judgement, serving as true assets to the associations, assignors, and schools with which they are involved. :) :)

The subsequent responses prompted the addition of category 3). I just wish our area would be blessed with a few more of them!

Are you talking about officials that work subvarsity games or those that only work subvarsity games?

I'm assuming the latter but figured I'd clarify.

I am 59 and really enjoy just reffing the games. The difference in varsity pay and j/v is $12.50 in my area. If I do a j/v game I am usually done and home no later than 8 pm. When I get the chance to do a 3 man crew on varsity,I usually get home between 10-30 to 11-00 pm. $12.50 is not worth the difference in time. Also if I get to do a "B" team double header that starts at 4 pm, that is even better. More money less travel and home early. Most of the fans have no clue wether you are a NCCA D 1 guy or local that works for the Humane Society. All they see is a striped shirt. As long as you get the calls right,the fans could care less.

Long string here, this may have been said, but I think this is a touchy subject. Assuming you are a better official because you work the 7:00 game vs. the 5:30 game is poor judgement.

I work plenty of Varsity and sub-Varsity games - I appreciate feedback no matter which game I work. However, feedback should only be offered when asked for. I have a real problem when the Varsity crew starts offering unsolicited advice and then on the court and don't do some of the same things we just got done talking about.

Clarification
 

Correct. I was referring to referees in reference to subvarsity games only. The original response to the OP came when I was fresh off watching the JV game prior to our V contest, somewhat frustrated over the situation before me that there was a category 1 matched with a category 2, as, due to numbers, commonly occurs in this area. As I serve in a role as a mentor to new officials, prepping them for their first contests, and following them up through the ranks, I find that I so often have to explain to the category 1 officials that they need to know how to do a good job on those occasions when they're matched with a category 2 official. The number of category 3 officials is minimal, and it sure would be good to have some assisting with the mentoring. When 1's are paired with 1's, it's a great thing. When 1's are matched with 2's, the 1's can get dispirited and so it is necessary to prepare them for this reality. I sure appreciate the responses to this thread which alerted me to the fact that I should really appreciate the category 3 officials when I run into them. In fact, with BillyMac as my personal role model, I hope to be one someday.
BTW - I accept every sub-varsity game that the assignor gives me. I like working with the category 1's, and I've won over a few category 2's along the way and treasure those opportunities to work with them to get them into the preferable category, either 1 or 3. Those who are in those categories usually consider this forum, in fact, a part of their course of getting better.

fify

It is, but I think we are living in a fantasy world if we think that most officials that are capable are working the lower level game just to get home quicker. I find that funny because a lot of guys like to be away from home and would like to go out drinking on a Friday or Saturday and not be home.

And many do have a problem, but many do not ask for any feedback either. And many go on wondering why they never get varsity games.

Peace

A few years ago I would have went the beer drinking route and staying out with the guys. Now with all the DUI check points we have here in Va. drinking with the guys while driving home from a game or after the game almost guarantees you a nice set of braclets to wear to the county jail. Plus if you have a job and get home around 11 pm and back up by 5 am and then work all day and then another game that evening is kinda tiring. :)

Varsity games take 2-3 hours up your way?

Down here the DHs go 5:30 & 7:00 (GV/BV for AAA; JV/V for AA). My 7:00 games are always done by 8:30. Once had a AAA BV in which we were back in the locker room at 8:10.

Our association requires arrival 1 hour before tip off for all varsity games. Many/most B/G double headers start first game at 6:30 then 20 minutes on the clock between games. So arrive at 5:30, end first game at 7:45, start second game ~8:05, end second game ~9:20.

JV B/G double header starting at 4:00. Arrive 3:40, tip at 4:00. 3 to 5 minute Half time with teams staying in team area. Game over by ~4:50. Boys game starts 5:00 done by ~5:50.

$5 less money, 2 hours and 5 minutes vs almost 4 hours.