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-   -   Lotsa T's for Some, Not Very Many for Others? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/85988-lotsa-ts-some-not-very-many-others.html)

fullor30 Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 814328)
Sometimes Ts can make the game better and other times they're needed so the game doesn't hit the toilet.


Precisely, it makes the game better:eek:

Adam Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 814328)
Sometimes Ts can make the game better and other times they're needed so the game doesn't hit the toilet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 814354)
Precisely, it makes the game better:eek:

Usually, but failure to make the game better does not mean it was a bad T, and just because the game gets better without a T does not mean it was best uncalled.

fullor30 Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 814321)
Usually, but I balk at the phrase because whether a T makes the game better really has no bearing on whether it was a good T.

Why was it 'good'? Good for you? A good T is a deserved t, not given out of spite, malice, etc. It's applied because coach, player has crossed the line and needs a 'time out' It's residual effect is to make the game 'better' and controllable.

IMHO a 'good' t will always make the game better. In my experience I've never whacked someone only to have game go South, on any level.

fullor30 Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 814357)
Usually, but failure to make the game better does not mean it was a bad T, and just because the game gets better without a T does not mean it was best uncalled.

Huh? You lost me.....

Rich Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 814360)
Why was it 'good'? Good for you? A good T is a deserved t, not given out of spite, malice, etc. It's applied because coach, player has crossed the line and needs a 'time out' It's residual effect is to make the game 'better' and controllable.

IMHO a 'good' t will always make the game better. In my experience I've never whacked someone only to have game go South, on any level.

I have. I called a technical only to have the coach completely lose it and draw a second one seconds later. That was about 15-16 years ago, my last basketball coach ejection.

But it doesn't mean I wish I hadn't called it. Once the coach left, it was better.

Adam Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 814360)
Why was it 'good'? Good for you? A good T is a deserved t, not given out of spite, malice, etc. It's applied because coach, player has crossed the line and needs a 'time out' It's residual effect is to make the game 'better' and controllable.

IMHO a 'good' t will always make the game better. In my experience I've never whacked someone only to have game go South, on any level.

I base the justice of a T on whether it was deserved, not its affect on the game. 99% of the time, it works as it should, I just don't think someone should question the T because the game continued to go south.

biggravy Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:56am

I have called 12 in the last four years. No records before that but averaged about the same. All of them were no brainers, in my opinion. But I see a T as just a part of the game, another foul. Move on. In this same four years though, I've had a partner call just one. Collectively around here we allow far too much unsporting behavior to occur. This is stressed by our assignors and the state all the time. I feel the problem is the hang up on it being a big deal instead of just another foul.

Adam Wed Jan 18, 2012 01:03am

I'm not in the "just like any other foul" camp. I'm not scared of them, and will probably call a couple more this season, but I don't think pretending they're not a big deal is particularly helpful. It's the one call that, by it's nature and rarity, draws attention to the official. It's often a rally killer, and it can change a game. Those things shouldn't affect how we call the T, but they should be acknowledged. IMHO, of course, and YMMV.

Eastshire Wed Jan 18, 2012 08:00am

My count went to 2 last night as the varsity coach couldn't stop himself from giving his two cents during the JV game. I had called a violation for disconcerting the free thrower which caused both coaches to stand to confront me (I was trail in two man). I told the asst coach to sit, which he did, but he continued to harangue me as I was giving a quick explanation to the head coach.

fullor30 Wed Jan 18, 2012 09:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 814371)
I base the justice of a T on whether it was deserved, not its affect on the game. 99% of the time, it works as it should, I just don't think someone should question the T because the game continued to go south.

I think we are in agreement and parallel to each other. Possibly better worded from me would be the effect of a T almost always makes the game better.

Adam Wed Jan 18, 2012 09:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 814457)
I think we are in agreement and parallel to each other. Possibly better worded from me would be the effect of a T almost always makes the game better.

We usually are, and I was about to reword my statement the same way.

gdudik Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 814257)
Not sure. I was hoping the warnings would do it. I was also a little surprised that it was happening in an 8th grade game. I could tell my partner was reluctant, so I should have made sure that as a crew we were strong.

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to dump on you, btw. Just curious why you didnt, having been in the same place myself where I was reluctant to call a well deserved T

fullor30 Wed Jan 18, 2012 01:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 814460)
We usually are, and I was about to reword my statement the same way.

Awww, give me a hug big guy:D

Adam Wed Jan 18, 2012 01:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 814509)
Awww, give me a hug big guy:D

Get on I-70 and head west. Meet me in Kansas City.


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