NBA officiating

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by IrvKostal
I... but a more serious matter, IMHO, is the disconnect between the fans, the refs and the league as to just what constitues a foul. The charging/blocking foul is a major example of this disconnect. This one everyone sees the way they WANT to see it, and there's almost no such thing as a charging/blocking foul call that doesn't draw a complaint from someone.It would help greatly if the NBA would come up with some definitions here that most of us could understand.

There is a clear and concise definition. The problem is that the announcers repeatedly mis-represent the rules. The refs get it right, the announcers confuse the issue by giving incorrect explantions.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Trayhezy
I want to get the opinions of you all who have been in that position and who know how to the do this job and how difficult it is, in order to get a true perspective on what I am watching.

Tray, with all due respect, you're asking your question in the wrong place b/c "that position" is officiating in the NBA. As far as I know, nobody on this board has done that. Some of us work NCAA ball, a few of us have worked the minor leagues (CBA, USBL, ABA), and one of us has even worked in the WNBA.

But if you want to ask the guys who have been in "that position" (namely, calling fouls on Dirk, Shaq, AI, and The Truth), you're going to have to look elsewhere.

In all seriousness, maybe you could track down the email address for Stu Jackson or Ed Rush and ask them. They are the NBA VP for Basketball Operations and the Director of Officials, respectively. Good luck. If you get a response from one of them, I hope you will return here to share it with us.

Chuck

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by IrvKostal
I... but a more serious matter, IMHO, is the disconnect between the fans, the refs and the league as to just what constitues a foul. The charging/blocking foul is a major example of this disconnect. This one everyone sees the way they WANT to see it, and there's almost no such thing as a charging/blocking foul call that doesn't draw a complaint from someone.It would help greatly if the NBA would come up with some definitions here that most of us could understand.

Interesting point of view...two problems I see with your statement: 1)every foul call draws a complaint from someone - whether it's an NBA game or a 7th grade girl's game. That's because those people are fans and have a vested interest in who wins and who loses the game...we couldn't care less about that. 2)Everyone sees the block/charge call (or the traveling call, or the 3 second call, or the illegal screen call, ot the...)the way they want to see it because, again, they are fans...there is no question in our minds what constitutes a foul or violation in the games we do, and there is no question in the NBA guys minds when they are working - the questions are in the minds of the fans...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rockyroad
...in the minds of the fans...

The mind of a fan....a vast, deep, empty darkness, the like of which no conquerer has ever dared to venture.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by rockyroad

Interesting point of view...two problems I see with your statement: 1)every foul call draws a complaint from someone - whether it's an NBA game or a 7th grade girl's game. That's because those people are fans and have a vested interest in who wins and who loses the game...we couldn't care less about that. 2)Everyone sees the block/charge call (or the traveling call, or the 3 second call, or the illegal screen call, ot the...)the way they want to see it because, again, they are fans...there is no question in our minds what constitutes a foul or violation in the games we do, and there is no question in the NBA guys minds when they are working - the questions are in the minds of the fans...

Have we touched on advantage/disadvantage yet? This complicates the matter even further. A referee's decision on whether or not to call a violation or foul that he sees is often based on whether the offender gained an advantage. Most fans are unable to look at a foul by the opposing team and say, "Oh well, didn't affect the game."

[Woodee]

I've been debating with a couple of friends this very topic. My stance is like all of yours. I guess this Ref stuff goes deep inside! Am I a true Ref???


As for conspiracy theories, its impossible because there are too many parts (Players, Coaches, Refs, Scorekeepers, Timers etc, etc) that have to participate to make it happen.

Total NONSENSE!!!!!

[mick]

Originally posted by Woodee
I've been debating with a couple of friends this very topic. My stance is like all of yours. I guess this Ref stuff goes deep inside! Am I a true Ref???


As for conspiracy theories, its impossible because there are too many parts (Players, Coaches, Refs, Scorekeepers, Timers etc, etc) that have to participate to make it happen.

Total NONSENSE!!!!!

You look like a 'real ref' to me, Woodee.

[Joe]

"And ask yourself this question: If the NBA is going to pay someone $100,000 for six months work (plus expenses), do you think they're going to keep folks that don't do it the way they want!!??!!??"

"As for conspiracy theories..."

"Conspiracy" is too strong a word, but "understanding"
that an extra game in the playoffs is worth $10,000,000+, or making sure super-star bangers like Shaq rarely foul
out in the playoffs, is another. Let's put it this way, the NBA as a business has a bias. Are the games "fixed"? No. Does the "bias" sometimes effect perception just a bit? Maybe. Does Stern call up Crawford and say: "if you can, call it on Shaw, not on Kobe, OK?" No. But maybe "they're going to keep folks [around] that do it the way they want."

I know, and I agree, the NBA refs do a fine job in general,
but you've got to understand the "home team" bias on the
*official forum* is for the official's team. Us against the world.

Hey, I'm glad they keep giving Nick extra free throws! I want see it go seven too!

Originally posted by Woodee
I've been debating with a couple of friends this very topic. My stance is like all of yours. I guess this Ref stuff goes deep inside! Am I a true Ref???


As for conspiracy theories, its impossible because there are too many parts (Players, Coaches, Refs, Scorekeepers, Timers etc, etc) that have to participate to make it happen.

Total NONSENSE!!!!!

[Joe]

"This one everyone sees the way they WANT to see it, and there's almost no such thing as a charging/blocking foul call that doesn't draw a complaint from someone.It would help greatly if the NBA would come up with some definitions here that most of us could understand."

"2)Everyone sees the block/charge call (or the traveling call, or the 3 second call, or the illegal screen call, ot the...)the way they want to see it because, again, they are fans..."

There was a poll on a fan list (800+ members) a few weeks back that described a simple obvious charging call and asked the fans if the call was right. The bottom line:
NONE of the fans knew the rule, in fact they all got it wrong. The "disconnect" isn't just because of fan bias,
it's because they haven't taken a break from there chips
and beer long enough to find out what the rule is.

Originally posted by rockyroad

Interesting point of view...two problems I see with your statement: 1)every foul call draws a complaint from someone - whether it's an NBA game or a 7th grade girl's game. That's because those people are fans and have a vested interest in who wins and who loses the game...we couldn't care less about that. 2)Everyone sees the block/charge call (or the traveling call, or the 3 second call, or the illegal screen call, ot the...)the way they want to see it because, again, they are fans...there is no question in our minds what constitutes a foul or violation in the games we do, and there is no question in the NBA guys minds when they are working - the questions are in the minds of the fans...

[Joe]

"The problem is that the announcers repeatedly mis-represent the rules."

Most of the time. Have you noticed how Van Gundy
(who it seems is about to become a head coach again)
has been kissing official butt? Marv and the Czar
grin every (about 10-15 times per game) time he sez:
"Yadayada is one of the FINEST
officials in the NBA! GREAT CALL!"

Originally posted by Camron Rust

There is a clear and concise definition. The problem is that the announcers repeatedly mis-represent the rules. The refs get it right, the announcers confuse the issue by giving incorrect explantions.