It's part of the game....

[dblref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Nah,just tell 'em that the winner gets to watch the rest of the game.

I made this bet last year with a Mother (who was also a "Mutha") regarding over the back. She came up to my partner and me at half-time (G-12 girls, AAU) and told us that we missed calling "over the back" 6 times in the first half. I pulled my rule book from my bag and politely told her that if she could show me in the book where "over the back" was listed as a foul, I would give her a $100 bill. If it wasn't there, she owed me a $100 bill. She looked for about 5 minutes, told me to "stuff it" and walked away. She still owes me $100. My partner cracked up at her actions.

[Nevadaref]

Yeah, but I could have made this same bet regarding the term "jump stop" until last season when the committee put it in some commentary at the back.
So what's my point? Well, I don't have one.

[theboys]

Hey, Fletch. I have a question on the administration of the technicals. On a double tech, the FTs are skipped, and you go to the possession arrow, right? Is this different because the technicals, technically, weren't simultaneous?

[fletch_irwin_m]

In NFHS rules, fouls and "T's" are administered in sequence. In the NCAA, I believe, you would resort to the possession arrow, but am not sure about shooting the FT's. (Some of our esteemed NCAA fellows/ladies can pick that up.)
Therefore:
Holding foul - Team A 1 and 1
Technical on Team A - Two FT's Team B
Delay
Tech on Team B - Two FT's Team A w/ball out opposite Table

[mick]

Originally posted by theboys
Hey, Fletch. I have a question on the administration of the technicals. On a double tech, the FTs are skipped, and you go to the possession arrow, right? Is this different because the technicals, technically, weren't simultaneous?

"After the whistle, Player A jabs Player B (Defender) in chest. I whack a "T". Player B gets in A's face and starts taunting as A is trying to walk away. WHACK on B."

Coach,
I, too, would have considered a double-T as opposed to the False double. The reason being that even though there was a "delay", the action and reaction that precipitated the two fouls

was approximately at the same time;

was the result of a singular act;

was involving only two players.

Thus, I agree with you, no throws.

Had the players been moved (ie. away from the lane, to the other end), had the first foul been reported, had there been some measureable time where the second player had had a chance to think about what he was doing, then, I think, I would use the False-double-T
mick

[ChuckElias]

I think that the solutions presented by both fletch and mick can be supported from the (NF) rules. This sounds like you had to see it to know if the Ts were at approximately the same time or not. Personally, my guideline is that if I have time to blow the whistle, spit it out, then put it back in to blow a second time, then it's a FDF. If both fouls occur before I can get the whistle in my mouth for the first one, then it's a double T. That's a very rough guideline, but it works for me.

And just to be clear. . .

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
In NFHS rules, fouls and "T's" are administered in sequence. In the NCAA, I believe, you would resort to the possession arrow, but am not sure about shooting the FT's.

In the NCAA, FDFs are administered the same way as Fed. However, double fouls are put back in play at the POI (unless intentional or flagrant). With double fouls, no FTs are shot.

Chuck

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I think that the solutions presented by both fletch and mick can be supported from the (NF) rules. This sounds like you had to see it to know if the Ts were at approximately the same time or not. Personally, my guideline is that if I have time to blow the whistle, spit it out, then put it back in to blow a second time, then it's a FDF. If both fouls occur before I can get the whistle in my mouth for the first one, then it's a double T. That's a very rough guideline, but it works for me.

That works for me too.

[fletch_irwin_m]

It doesn't work for me, I want to have the only right answer!!!JK
After the 1st T Player B started clapping and saying stuff that wasn't all that bad, but when Player A tried to walk away, he kept up with him talking directly too him. I stared at him for a few seconds hoping he would stop but he didn't. So whack.
Did I understand that in NCAA this would have been handled the same way with the exception of the ball being placed in bounds at POI?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m

After the 1st T Player B started clapping and saying stuff that wasn't all that bad, but when Player A tried to walk away, he kept up with him talking directly too him. I stared at him for a few seconds hoping he would stop but he didn't. So whack.

For me this would have been the dreaded and infamous False Double Foul. Then you shoot free throws at each end, penalizing them in the order then occurred. That's Fed. No clue about anything else.

[ChuckElias]

I agree with Juulie. FDF, shoot all the FTs. In Fed, give the ball to the team who shot the last FTs. In NCAA, you'd go back to where the ball was before the first T.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
It doesn't work for me, I want to have the only right answer!!!JK
After the 1st T Player B started clapping and saying stuff that wasn't all that bad, but when Player A tried to walk away, he kept up with him talking directly too him. I stared at him for a few seconds hoping he would stop but he didn't. So whack.
Did I understand that in NCAA this would have been handled the same way with the exception of the ball being placed in bounds at POI?

Fletch,it's your call.The rule(FED 4-19-7d)says that they occur at "approximately the same time".If you feel that there is a time lag between the T's,the proper call can then be a false double foul made up of 2 T's.

Actually,that's pretty much what Dan,Chuck and mick have said already.

[mick]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
It doesn't work for me, I want to have the only right answer!!!JK
After the 1st T Player B started clapping and saying stuff that wasn't all that bad, but when Player A tried to walk away, he kept up with him talking directly too him. I stared at him for a few seconds hoping he would stop but he didn't. So whack.
Did I understand that in NCAA this would have been handled the same way with the exception of the ball being placed in bounds at POI?

fletch_irwin_m,

...when Player A tried to walk away, he kept up with him talking directly too him. I stared at him for a few seconds hoping he would stop but he didn't. said "Enough". So I didn't have to whack him, too.

[fletch_irwin_m]

I believe I used the word Easy as I stared at him. Not focused on my posts today. I need to tighten up.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Yeah, but I could have made this same bet regarding the term "jump stop" until last season when the committee put it in some commentary at the back.
So what's my point? Well, I don't have one.

The point is...the committee cost you an easy $100

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Yeah, but I could have made this same bet regarding the term "jump stop" until last season when the committee put it in some commentary at the back.
So what's my point? Well, I don't have one.

While the term "jump stop" wasn't found in the rule book, the definition for it was. However, nowhere in the rule book is "over the back" described or defined.