Would you call this palming violation?
 

Under 30 seconds remaining in the game, Team A down 1.

A1 has the ball above the top of the key, isolated with B1. He's dribbling the ball back and forth from one hand to another. He dribbles from his right to his left, hesitates on his toes, left hand comes under the ball and he blows by B1.

You've previously called one palming violation during the game.

The poll is very simple. I don't need an analysis of my description. By rule, a palming violation occurred. Based on the facts given, would you whistle the violation?

I thought it was a trick question.


YES Why would anyone not call it?

That's the key...He gained an advantage by being able to beat the defender.
Illegal.
How about the player who obviously "palms" the ball when no defender is present, and makes no move towards the basket? I've seen this called many times......IMO, this is not the intent of the rule...let it go.

I've called a palming violation in the last minute of a closely contested game. Happened right if front of the offender's coach. He said nothing of it and my partner did not ask about it after the game.

If it's obvious and created a distinct advantage it's no different than calling a travel, IMO.

That's what I thought too...when I made the call.

Let's Put The Whistles Away ...
 

Is the implication that the rules change during the last thirty seconds of the game?

Does it matter if I am at T, C, or L ?

Yes, if created a distinct advantage. Just curious, was the previous palming on the same player or the opponent? Also, did you get a lot of crap for the call?

My threshold goes up for calling this with no defender present, but I will and have called it. Just like three seconds, ten seconds, etc.

Don't recall the player in the first one. No crap though.

Pat You On The Back, Or Stab You In The Back ???
 

Snaqwells: I can't quite figure out whether to agree with you, or disagree with you, on your last statement.

Are you saying your "threshold goes up for calling" ten seconds in the backcourt "with no defender present"?

Relevant ???
 

And this makes a difference, why?

Never said it did make a difference! If the same player had done it earlier, he should have known better, if it was a player on the other team, at least there is an appearance of fairness.

I was wondering if the person who cast the single negative vote would care to comment and explain his position on this issue. I can only guess it would be something along the lines of "Don't let a call like this decide the game," of something equally profound.

In one of my first varsity games, I called a lane violation on the offense with 3 seconds left on a free throw that would have iced the game, then called a travel prior to the release on a potential game tying 3 pointer at the buzzer. It missed anyway.

That's What I Thought ...
 

I have to disagree with you here "pardner". We never have to appear to be fair. We have to be fair. All the time.

Trading calls may help us to appear to be fair, but it doesn't necessarily make us fair. I never want to walk down that street, and I've been around the block many, many times.

And you would be wrong...I voted no simply to see if it would generate any comments/cause anything to come out of the woodwork. So far - only your question.

The OP seemed like such an easy call to make, I just wanted to stir something up from people who hold the opinion you put above...

And they are out there. This thread kinda scared me. If it had turned out that that was Tony's position, the world as I know it would cease to exist.

Likewise, if nothing else, to alert a dribbler that he's picked up a very bad habit.

Billy, it was in Tony's original post about his crew having called an earlier palming violation, I was following up with curousity. Why do you think he posted that?

Makeup Calls ...
 

I don't care who posted it. Officials should never even give the impression that we trade calls. Not on the Forum. Not anyplace else. Never. Ever.

I think he posted it because he anticipated it as a possible question by someone who thinks that would matter, even though it doesn't.

Fairness, like most things, is in the eye of the beholder.

Has the violation been made earlier in the game on the same team?

"He calls that against us but not them."

Earlier in the game on the other team?

"Make up call."

Not at all?

"He saved that one for the end to screw us. It's the same move our guy used all night."

Often it doesn't seem fair. Many times one team gets all the calls. Usually because of talent level or style of play, but sometimes there is no obvious reason. I have said on more than one occasion, "This calling seemed one-sided to me, and I was one of the guys doing the calling."

There is no such thing as "trading calls". An official officiates the game according to the RULES. Read JAR's post which nicely sums it up. Happy New Year

And I Hate Those Foul Counters Too ...
 

You're' damn right it doesn't.

There's no crying in baseball, and there are no makeup calls in basketball.

I will call any obvious violation no matter the time of the game and I see it.

Different story if I am unsure.

Peace

I vote no from the information you gave. Just because he put his hand under the ball and rose up on his toes is not a palm or carry, Was his hand touching ball?? I see alot of palming of ball calls just because player does hesitation move and moves hand to side of ball,

The last sentence in his post wasn't convincing enough?

The question was not whether a violation occurred. It did. That was a given in the OP. The question is whether you would make the call or overlook what some consider a minor thing at this crucial stage of the game.

Or Even Better, Let's Put On a Show ...
 

I wonder what other "minor things" we should overlook at a crucial stage of a game? Let's have a poll.

First of all, I'm glad to see you jumping into discussion like this.

Yes, assume from the description that his hand was touching the ball when his hand went under the ball.

Second, when the player puts his hand on the side of the ball, he's coming close to a violation. It's possible for the ball to come to rest in his hand (especially a player with large hands) even though it's not "under" the ball. Either is a palming violation.

Only the same minor things you've been ignoring all game.

In the description he should of said "he clearly palmed the ball by holding ball underneath" and then I would agree, not that "he rose up on toes....." . My point is that you can't penalize players that have developed good skills and moves that come "close" to violating rules. I see palming called alot just because a player hesitates , rises on toes , but does not lift ball.

I agree it's a very easy call to make, which is why I can't believe the thread is still active. I voted, read the first two posts and then didn't bother to look at it again until just now when I noticed that there are more than 30 replies.

I can assure you the OP wasn't asking whether it was a palming violation; he knows one when he sees it. The phrase that has you stuck was just helping to describe the play; he also knows the toes have nothing to do with a palming call.

You've previously established that the refs you see are making calls with which you disagree.

1. You might just have to accept the fact that you misunderstand the rule. I'm basing this on the portions of my post that you highlighted.

2. I would suggest that you contact the person assigning middle school games in your area and find out how to get started as an official.

Call the obvious violation... time on the clock or game situation should not be a consideration.

Hopefully the crew has been consistent in adjudicating palming the entire game and so the call fits with what you have called previously.

If the play was 50/50 then you probably want to play on.

Second # 2. Also,

3. Accept that the officials working your daughter's level are usually not the most experienced there are.