Pinstripes
 

Following a prestigious local holiday tournament on Twitter this morning...

The reporter tweets that this particular school has pinstripes on their jerseys, and that they have a waiver for them from the IHSA. He also said that the officials assessed a technical foul anyway for the illegal uniforms.

If they have a waiver, I thought we were supposed to leave the situation alone?

Go to the IHSA web-site, officials center, login and read the latest (you should be soing this at least once per week).

No schools have a waiver anymore. The pinstripes are illegal. The officials are correct (assuming this was a Varsity tournament).

Listening to the broadcast...they said only one free throw was shot.

The Story You are About to See is True . . .
 

Was the tourney held inside the Joliet State Penitentary?
Oh wait, the stripes would be somewhat thicker then.
:D

Then either the officials or the broadcaster were wrong (or there was something really weird like a violation on one of the attempts)

Hate to talk about uniforms again but since you asked...
Uniform rules changes by the IHSA was made by changing 3 things that were common problems with uniforms. If uniforms did not meet the new criteria they were deemed illegal. Waivers are now not accepted by the IHSA Uniform Police.

And it is not out of the question one or both could be totally wrong.

I was kind of involved in the situation with the pinstripes as the official that noticed it called me for advice for what to do. He contacted many parties and called me to report what he was told. Then I called the tournament director to let him know they might have a problem. I really do not understand why this is such a big deal, but those are the rules and I guess they must be followed as we have nothing else important to do.

Peace

Heard of another situation involving pinstripes today. The FT shooter bounced the first one about halfway to the basket, and stepped over the line on the second. The other coach "didn't want to win that way." He ended up losing by 1 point.

Probably same tournament, same school.

Do you get the sense that guys just don't know what they're supposed to do? With how many emails we've gotten, it's hard to keep things straight. I know the latest email said that nobody needed waivers anymore, and that we should enforce the rules with the new changes, but man I'd be confused and I wouldn't want to do the wrong thing, so I don't blame your guy for calling around.

EDIT: By not knowing what they're supposed to do, I don't mean that they don't know the rules.

Morgan Park- Hinsdale Central? Pic of uniform was in SunTimes Prep report this morning.

That was the game yesterday (hence the picture in the paper this morning), and yes. I heard that Hinsdale missed the free throw(s) on purpose as well.

Good for them. Maybe if every team does this, it will send a message to the IHSA about how stupid this all is.

I have to admit I don't get why so many schools in Illinois weren't in compliance.

Proviso West 51st Annual Holiday Tournament. Game 1. Morgan Park vs Hinsdale Central Varsity Basketball game

You can see the illegal uniforms.
5 minutes: Both free throws were given and both were intentionally missed.
Like JRut says the state wants us to just give the T and have the coach take a seat.

Coach take a seat????

I will say it this way. If they read the case situation carefully, it was clear what rules were modified. That being said this was a very unique situation as well. It really was up to the state to take a position that either said, "Does it really matter" or "The rules must be enforced."

And if you want to be seen as blatantly ignoring a rule, then do not enforce it. I hate this as much as anyone, but I have too much to lose to care what the schools think. The schools ultimately should have known when they got those jerseys what was legal or not and should be put ultimately responsibility. If they choose to do that, they would not be in that situation. And I am not sacrificing my accomplishments for a school who cannot read the rulebook or review the rules. And I really have no sympathy in this state where for the last 3 years or so this has been a big deal. It is like knowing you are driving in a place that will ticket you for 2 miles over the speed limit and going around and going 10 miles over and then complaining you had to pay the fine.

Peace

You're absolutely right. But I commend the other school for violating twice on the free throws, especially when they ended up losing by 2 points.

I doubt the school has the funds to run out and get new uniforms the remainder of this season, so it seems like they're going to be stuck with this for every "home" game the rest of the season.

Last night I had to deal with colors of prewrap in the hair. Mostly a light blue (to match the road jersey), but two with black and one with beige. A quick chat with the head coach during warmups got this fixed without anyone else knowing about the conversation (and she said she was well aware of the rule, so why are the girls not dressed properly?) and life went on. But it's a pain in the a$$ having to be the fashion police for every girls game I work.

I certainly understand where you're coming from. Good analogy as well.

That is, if the officials assigned to their games choose to enforce the rule. I know that this year isn't the first that Morgan Park has had the pinstripe jerseys, either.

Maybe it needs to start with the jersey makers themselves. When a school calls in an order, the manufacturer can tell the school whether or not the jersey is legal.

You have it backwards. The schools should know whether or not what they desire is legal. Manufacturers can't account for all the different rules throughout the country.

Fine, but shouldn't the NFHS rules be uniform (no pun intended) across the board? Shouldn't all states just follow the NFHS guidelines for uniforms?

Simplify it!!!

No, but a sporting good company sales rep who sells uniforms to a school should be knowledgable enough to know whether a uniform he is selling is legal or not. The first illegal uniform that he sold me was legal would be the last I bought for him.

Anyone else laugh when the kid trips at about the 5:13 mark after missing the two free throws. Thought that was good comeuppance.

I thought the kid intentionally missing the free throws was good sportsmanship, personally. If I were a coach, I'd do the exact same thing.

Well they had a waiver before. And the recent modifications did not include their jerseys. It is unfortunate for them, but not our problem.

I agree.

Peace

I do not agree with this for this reason. These are NF Rules and they could easily follow or know they are selling to schools that are NF teams. Also they do this in baseball with bats. The bats must have markings on them or they are not legal (helmets too). It is that simple and I do blame part of this on the Manufacturers or the sellers. All they would have to do is review the rules and make sure certain things are not allowed.

Peace

Yes...10-5-4 (unless IL has an exception I'm not aware of).

And the schools who order pinstriped uniforms don't have access to the same rules citations?

Sorry, but the schools are the ones who have rules to follow and who suffer if the rules are broken. They need to do their due diligence when making purchases. Could be as simple as including the actual pertinent rules in any correspondence with the vendors.

Akin to having 6 men on the court. Officials shouldn't let it happen but in the end it's on the teams to make sure they follow the rule or pay the price.

Having been in sales over the years and having to sell products to people based on circumstances, it is always the responsibility of those that are selling a product to know their customer. If their customer has special needs or certain regulations or certain rules they must follow, it is their job to know this on some level. Or at the very least ask. Not saying they have to know every little idiosyncrasies, but they should know basic rules like how big the side panels can be or if a the lettering has some restrictions. I have a family member that bought a car in Iowa and the dealership knew all the laws of Illinois and knew what was required before the deal was final. Now if you are selling a uniform to a team that plays under National Federation Rules, you would think they would know something about those rules when it comes to the school you are selling them to.

I am not absolving any responsibility of the schools. I know that there are schools that had new uniforms purchased for them by the "seller" because they gave them illegal uniforms. Now why do you think they did that if they did not feel responsible? Or if you are a school and you do not want the potential to start every contest with a T, then you better also know what you are buying and if it is not right, you send it back. I know one school that had just bought new uniforms was so upset he said he would never deal with them again. Now that company just lost a customer that might give them thousands of dollars in business all because they did not cross all "t" and dot the "i."

Peace

No doubt, vendors who aren't meticulous in knowing the rules should and will suffer by losing business. But in the end I don't think the schools can shift the blame to the vendors for illegal uniforms unless the vendor didn't follow the instructions of the schools buying the uniforms. In those situations I think the schools would have remedies with their state associations. But if the school were lax or lazy in their duties in regards to clearly stating what is not acceptable then it's their fault if it adversely affects their games.

Again you need to cover you a$$ so to speak.

If you are going to be the one giving the team points, I would want to know I am following the rules first. I was involved in a situation recently where a team had jerseys for years that were illegal and they were totally shocked they got penalized. And they were shocked considering our state focused on this more than anyone. They deserved what they got and should have known better for sure.

If I do not want to lose a customer or piss them off, then I am going to know what they can have legally. The same way I would not sell a bat in baseball that did not specifically follow the regulations that are current and one of the reasons I see radio ads from a famous retailer selling BBCOR bats because they know those are the only ones legal at the NF and NCAA level. And next year this is going to also be a nightmare in football as their are new regulations for football uniforms. And they have used the last 4 or 5 years preparing all involved that this rule is going to change and that penalties will be adjudicated if uniforms are illegal. Something tells me that schools have already not paid any attention to this rule even though has been on the Rules Video required viewing by all schools and official and if they do not know these new regulations that will go into affect in 2012, shame on them.

In a perfect world, manufacturers would know the rules and would clearly mark them in their catalogs. But it ain't a perfect world.

Yes, the burden falls on the school. However, there's usually a middle man, a local sporting goods sales rep. He should know what he's selling his clients, whether it's legal or not, and advise accordingly.