Noticed a mechanic that I do

[JugglingReferee]

So I had a very good JV/V double header today. The V game was first, ended up being a 40-37 contest, with a chance to tie at the buzzer. The JV was an 8-point spread, but only because Team A sunk their late-game FTs.

At times in both games, each team took turns playing tough defense. In our provincial camps, we learn quite early to reward good defense. So when you've got a deep 10-second count going on, you're going to immediately switch arms once you reach the FC.

What I found is that:

• when a team is playing aggressive defense (often from BC to FC as mentioned above), my 5-second CGC starts right away - and continues in that fashion for that possession or until aggressive defense ends
• when a team is not playing aggressive defense, or if Team A is adept at passing the ball around, I would keep hitting only "1" on a CGC, so I just don't count it (it's kinda pointless). Team A just passes or dribbles to > 6' anyways. Therefore, my 5-second CGC is delayed to see if Team B will actually qualify to start a CGC.

I'm not sure if I explained that well.

Does anyone do this?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I'm not sure if I explained that well. Does anyone do this?

We're taught to switch arms with each new count. For some reason, I hate counting with my left arm, but I do it.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We're taught to switch arms with each new count. For some reason, I hate counting with my left arm, but I do it.

I have gotten really good at using both arms/hands in regards to mechanics. I don't mind to count/chop with either hand. I always use the hand/arm in the direction the ball is going to go on OOB violations (If that makes sense).

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So I had a very good JV/V double header today. The V game was first, ended up being a 40-37 contest, with a chance to tie at the buzzer. The JV was an 8-point spread, but only because Team A sunk their late-game FTs.

At times in both games, each team took turns playing tough defense. In our provincial camps, we learn quite early to reward good defense. So when you've got a deep 10-second count going on, you're going to immediately switch arms once you reach the FC.

What I found is that:

• when a team is playing aggressive defense (often from BC to FC as mentioned above), my 5-second CGC starts right away - and continues in that fashion for that possession or until aggressive defense ends
• when a team is not playing aggressive defense, or if Team A is adept at passing the ball around, I would keep hitting only "1" on a CGC, so I just don't count it (it's kinda pointless). Team A just passes or dribbles to > 6' anyways. Therefore, my 5-second CGC is delayed to see if Team B will actually qualify to start a CGC.

I'm not sure if I explained that well.

Does anyone do this?

I think I know what you mean...looks kinda silly to keep putting your arm out once and putting it back down. I'll usually delay for a beat before starting a CGC, especially if they've been swinging the ball around the perimeter a lot.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We're taught to switch arms with each new count. For some reason, I hate counting with my left arm, but I do it.

Same here. This is the only way everyone in the gym knows you are starting a new count. Not sure this is what you are asking.....??

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For some reason, I hate counting with my left arm, but I do it.

Same for me, I'm strongly right hand dominate! Feels like I'm waving a broken appendage when I use my left arm!

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So I had a very good JV/V double header today. The V game was first, ended up being a 40-37 contest, with a chance to tie at the buzzer. The JV was an 8-point spread, but only because Team A sunk their late-game FTs.

At times in both games, each team took turns playing tough defense. In our provincial camps, we learn quite early to reward good defense. So when you've got a deep 10-second count going on, you're going to immediately switch arms once you reach the FC.

What I found is that:

• when a team is playing aggressive defense (often from BC to FC as mentioned above), my 5-second CGC starts right away - and continues in that fashion for that possession or until aggressive defense ends
• when a team is not playing aggressive defense, or if Team A is adept at passing the ball around, I would keep hitting only "1" on a CGC, so I just don't count it (it's kinda pointless). Team A just passes or dribbles to > 6' anyways. Therefore, my 5-second CGC is delayed to see if Team B will actually qualify to start a CGC.

I'm not sure if I explained that well.

Does anyone do this?

Juggling,
While I can see your point, you are potentially being unfair to the "non aggressive" team. You are, in effect, changing the rule from a 5-second count to a 6-second count because you don't think a team is playing aggressive defense.

You can easily make the argument that if a team is not pressuring in the backcourt, you don't start a 10-second count -- kind of pointless since there is no backcourt pressure to slow down the dribbler.

The same applies to an inbound pass after a basket when the other team is not pressing. But, what happens if the other four players run to the other end of the court? The defense then alertly starts to play defense. Your count should have been at 2 or 3, but you did not start it since there has not been any backcourt pressure.

Our crew tries to ALWAYS start a count on EVERY closely guarded situation, backcourt situation and throw-in situation simply because we just never know for sure when a player will NOT pass the ball in one or two seconds or will dribble the ball off of his/her leg or will not have a teammate to whom to inbound the ball.

It also tends to keep us all more focused on the game. But, that's just our crew. In watching many, many games over the years as a coach, scout, athletic director, league director, parent and spectator, there are more referees with your technique than mine.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I'm not sure if I explained that well.

Does anyone do this?

I'm often unsure whether I've explained something well.

Maybe you were asking something else?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We're taught to switch arms with each new count. For some reason, I hate counting with my left arm, but I do it.

Likewise. My problem is, when I'm on the lead, I sometimes start a count after an offensive rebound, because I'm anticipating a defensive rebound and starting my ten-second count. I don't know why I'm in such a rush; it's highly unlikely I'm going to get to ten, anyway. Maybe I should tell myself to wait a beat.

I suppose it doesn't look that bad if it's a long rebound outside the lane, and the rebounder is almost always closely guarded, but if he's in the lane, there's no need for a visible count.

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I always use the hand/arm in the direction the ball is going to go on OOB violations (If that makes sense).

I agree with this point. IMHO, I believe that it looks smoother/better when you do it that way. You aren't going across your body with the directional signal. This can help the L, at times, from going across their body and turning their back on the play. I practice this mechanic even during the season so I don't revert to one hand signalling. Disclaimer: do what works for you.

[Adam]

Juggler, I'm not sure what you mean. It seems like you're turning it into a six second count. I'm just not sure what you mean when you say you wait to see if they're going to qualify for a five second count. It seems they qualify, but you're waiting to see if they'll get to two before you even start.

Personally, i don't care what I look like swinging one count per arm in rapid succession. I look like I'm paying attention and doing my job.

[Tio]

An accurate count is something you can attain with practice. In general, do what the book tells you, which is to always have a count in backcourt situations. You never know when there will be an oddball deflection that will catch you off guard and if you haven't been counting you are screwed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Likewise. My problem is, when I'm on the lead, I sometimes start a count after an offensive rebound, because I'm anticipating a defensive rebound and starting my ten-second count. I don't know why I'm in such a rush; it's highly unlikely I'm going to get to ten, anyway. Maybe I should tell myself to wait a beat.

I suppose it doesn't look that bad if it's a long rebound outside the lane, and the rebounder is almost always closely guarded, but if he's in the lane, there's no need for a visible count.

IMO, it's better to have an unnecessary count and drop it than to start a count "a beat" late.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

IMO, it's better to have an unnecessary count and drop it than to start a count "a beat" late.

Probably. I just have this visual of a higher-up asking me, "what are you counting for?" Still, I suppose the count really doesn't affect anything until you blow your whistle at 5 (or 10).

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

IMO, it's better to have an unnecessary count and drop it than to start a count "a beat" late.

wrong