Everyone's wish has been granted
 

Effective today, we're no longer doing table operations for basketball games. The reasoning behind this is that we're feeling highly under appreciated by being relegated this year to doing only Timer/Scoreboard operations in Gym 2 (JV & C-Squads only).

You can thank the AD for this decision as he doesn't seem to care if the Varsity Table Crew has knowledge of the rules or not.

That's too bad-good table people are hard to find.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

It wasn't just me they lost. They lost the whole family, so not only minus a few table officials, but also minus a couple of security/crowd control.

Do you get to keep the taser? :D

You buy it, you keep it :p

Eagle-
What issues does the crew handling games in your main gym have in terms of rules knowledge? Kind of curious to see the difference between the crew I work on and your main gym crew!

Not buzzing the horn 1 minute before game, not buzzing the 45-sec. or 1 minute horn for intermissions (between quarters), not properly notifying floor officials of bonus/double bonus, not immediately notifying of player DQ'd on 5th foul or doing the 20 sec. countdown on DQ'd players, not keeping track of AP, not paying close attention on who fouled/scored.

Before the new scoreboard was put in, wouldn't buzz the warning horn at 15 seconds remaining in TOs (new board has built-in TO Timer with auto horn).

One of the real biggies: not being neutral/impartial!!!!

Not my wish. I'd take a professional table crew any day.

Eagle though I personally give you a hard time here, I admire how seriously you take your responsibilities. As Juggles put it, I wish I had a professional table crew at all of my games. Sorry that this is happening to you, I hope this is only a brief hiatus for you all.

Here's a copy of the e-mails between the AD & I:

AD Response to follow

AD Response to e-mail
 

Just because there have been no complaints, does not mean there have been issues.

Here's my response to this e-mail

As I quoted in this response & my initial e-mail, we have gone out of our way to keep up to date on the rules & regulations, yet for some reason even after working state qualifying & a JUCO Tournament we can only do JV & C-Squad games. No one else that does table there has similar qualifications (except for home district playoff games), nor are able to competently run the new scoreboard.

I don't understand your AD-If I'm an AD and have the opportunity to put people who worked state tournament qualifying games and a JUCO tournament on my Varsity table crew I do it because I also have a responsibility to the officials working my contests to provide competent personnel at the table-regardless of level.Eagle-is the cheering clock operator an teacher at the school?

the cheering timer is an alum of the school that's only 1-2 years removed from being a student there. She was filling in for the lunch lady who normally is the Varsity timer who has been ill (supposedly the past couple of game nights).

The lunch lady/Varsity Timer is normally only ill one game night a year & it's a rarity that she misses games. To not be there for 2 games in 6 days is highly unusual.

Yep. Sounds like there's some school politics going on...

I have to ask. Who, other than you, has noticed/pointed out/complained about the deficiencies of this/these other table person(s)?

That I can be unsure about as it seems the AD is not being very forthcoming when it comes to giving out information as of late.

I do know however that we have a better rapport with the floor officials than the other table personnel, due to in part of attending the local association meetings & our knowledge of the current rules/regulations.

I think your AD's choice to put a recently graduated alum who can't maintain objectivity as varsity timer over someone who has demonstrated ability and objectivity is an disgrace to the game-Especially for someone like me who worked his way through the ranks to earn the varsity official scorekeeper's position.How was the lunch lady she was filling in for in ability and objectivity?

I started in the summer of 2004 (between Soph and Jr years of HS) as a JV and Varsity boys summer league scorekeeper.Then with both varsity scorekeeper positions taken for the '04-'05 season I served as a ticket-taker and continued to work summer league to gain seat time.I shared varsity boys scorekeeper duties for the 2005-2006 season (even getting a chance to fill in for the first day of our annual boys tournament) and earned the right to work my first playoff home games as an official scorekeeper 9 days after my 18'th birthday.I have been a full time varsity scorekeeper since the 2006-2007 season working both regular season (home and away) and summer league games.

I too echo Welpe's sentiments and hope this hiatus is temporary for you all and you are back courtside working somewhere soon!

Ironically it is school politics as the one gal is from a prominent family in the area that gives contributions to the school (the alum). The lunch lady has just been there since before I was in high school & it's as if she has nothing better to do in the evening.

The lunch lady is doing slightly better as I've been coaching her on the new rules/regulations, just unsure how well she can run the new scoreboard. (If it's true that she's back)

School politics never cease to amaze me-read this story out of Florida.

Estero High parent berated former cheerleading coach in emails prior to firing Naples Daily News

Estero HS censoring cheerleader coach coverage - WFTX-TV Fort Myers/Naples, FL

Basically a coach was fired after a parent lobbied a school board member who improperly used her position on the board to convince the superintendent that this coach needs to go.The Fox 4 series of reports also shows the AD attempting to tell a reporter that he can't interview the cheerleaders regarding the termination of their coach.

If anyone would like to show their support for this young coach sign here is the link to a petition you can sign asking for her reinstatement:
http://www.change.org/petitions/lee-...ro-high-school

Concerning the lunch lady's work ethic, she is not quite to the point of being completely impartial as there are times she does cheer but she does not become overly exuberant like the recently graduated alum.

The lunch lady, at halftime, starts the clock & leaves the table for 9 minutes & 30 seconds most of the time I've noticed so when I was shot clock I had to sound the 1 minute warning. Same thing can be said for pre-games, she'd set the clock, start it and wouldn't return to the table until right before the minute warning or about 15-30 seconds after. The other thing that neither has done is to double check the books at halftime for discrepancies.

My story is kinda like yours is.

I started out as a frosh in HS doing floor sweeps between games & at halftime. From my sophmore year on, I was the Boys' Basketball manager (did JV & C-Squad scorebooks), so I learned early on about the table having to remain neutral. The only difference is that I took time off from basketball after HS to do some other career opportunities. I've been back doing table operations for the past 4-5 years until tonight.

On a regular basis, I'm having to coach/train the personnel doing the scorebook or coaches on how the table should be setup best to limit CEs.

I've even trained the gentleman that does the JV timer in Gym 1 on how to work the new scoreboard. I can reprogram the new scoreboard as I am very familiar with it, the AD's knowledge of the board barely scratches the surface. The lunch lady/Varsity timer (as far as I know) has not had any time on the new scoreboard so she'd likely have to be trained as well. The alum had a fly-by-night training immediately (by me) before the Girls' Varsity Contest & is prone to making errors.

What did you think about the Florida article I posted Eagle?

Right now, my thoughts on that situation in Florida is like "Wow, really?" So she also works at Hooters, she's keeping that work separate from her work as the cheerleading coach.

It almost sounds as if the one school board member & the one parent don't like her coaching techniques, so they're using her working at Hooters as an excuse.

Maybe you could get a job at Hooters.

After reading the article, my guess is that it's more of a morality issue...uptight parent approaches a school board member (in an election year) and convinces him/her that a "group" of us parents (read: voters) are "concerned" that a Hooters girl is coaching our impressionable youth. School boards are elected on a county wide basis in this state so I'm never surprised at the lengths they go to maintain office. That's what it sounds like here. As usual...Florida attracts ALL the nutjobs.

Your situation reeks of school politics as well...no elected officials involved, but slimy just the same. Good luck with it. Take heart in knowing that ADs and Coaches tend to have a shelf life. Hopefully their's is short.

+1

I did the clock for my son's rec game this past weekend. Thankfully, I didn't have to keep up with ALL the duties. I'd give myself a B-. Tough stuff to get it right if you don't have the proper training and experience.....(and this wasn't in a big gym with everyone looking at the scoreboard hanging on the wall. It was just a portable scoreboard at the table).

This crap drives me nuts. I meet with the captains at 12:00 and go right to the table after the captain's meeting (about 11:30, if I can help it). How hard is it for the scorer and timer to actually be there then?

How am I supposed to have my meeting with the timer if she's gone from 20 minutes until there's less than a minute left? Then, after no meeting, I don't get the proper horns (including the second horn I always ask for on timeouts and the 5 second horn on injuries/DQs) and I feel like we're not on the same page the entire game.

And around here the timer gets paid, so part of getting paid, IMO, is being there when I want to have my meeting.

You're totally right about showing up on time for the pre-game being part of the job Rich.I'm always there for my pre-game meetings whether it be in basketball or volleyball.

I am always present at the table at all times, except for restroom breaks. When I do leave the table I look at the clock as well as my own watch to figure out exactly what time I need to be back for pre-game meeting(s) or end of halftime.

Everyone else there seems to get setup then leaves right after the pre-game or as soon as halftime starts.

I'm curious, Eagle. Why do you think "Everyone's wish has been granted?" What issue does everyone have with you?

The title has to deal with how when I first started posting on here, I had very few supporters, almost everyone on here wished I would just not worry about anything except the absolute basics of my duties/responsibilities.

It's kind of like an inside joke.

My local U was running fine until the minor officials had a timing error that went unnoticed. When the home team lost in the dying seconds...... well, "changes" were made.

The reality is I doubt most people here (including myself) give a darn either way. You get crap here for your positions on things like rules and responsibilities which you clearly are not aware of, not for the fact you can or will work the table in your corner of the country. I doubt many here even care a lick of why you are not working at that position anymore. I cannot believe we are talking about the politics of this issue as if you were so wronged as to who works the table or not. Most of the time your position is very replaceable and if an AD, coach or school board wants to put someone else in that position, not sure why you would be surprised by that decision being made, even if it was not honest. I also recall that you were not paid and it is not like you could not do it somewhere else or at another time.

Peace

I do not mind being a volunteer, as it would be a cost savings to the school.

Well, it's pretty obvious that you give a darn.

It's a wonder, with people like you here, we ever get any new posters to hang around for any period of time. :rolleyes:

P.S. Just a reality check for you, having a firm knowledge of the rules is not a prerequisite for posting here. Actually, quite the contrary. I would hope that we, as a community, would be more welcoming of those who don't know the rules but who have a desire to learn, than to those like you who think they already know everything.

So the JV and C-Squads just aren't big time enough for you? The JV and C-Squad kids don't deserve quality table officials?

Dear BktBallRef,

This is your assignor. Due to a number of circumstances, I wanted to let you know that, from now on, I'm only going to be assigning you sub-varsity games, despite your years of experience and superior rules knowledge. We'll still pay you your varsity rate, but you won't be doing varsity contests anymore, which also means you probably won't be in the running to do special tournaments or state tournaments as well.

I hope you'll understand since, after all, the JV and C-squad kids deserve quality officials as well.

Sincerely,

Joe "Your Assignor" Smith

P.S. I also wanted to let you know that Scrappy Jones, the new guy in the association, has just been promoted to do varsity and will be taking over the remainder of your assignments. Yes, I know he's only done a handful of freshman games, but I just think he looks great out there on the court and I've never heard any complaints about him.

fiasco, I for one don't mind doing rec or sub-V games. The only thing that stops me during the week is the early start times (Job #1 gets in the way). :rolleyes:

I like calling ball. Period.

Just me.

Again you are talking to me when I am not talking to you? Why is that?

Secondly if I cared then why did I not respond earlier when I first noticed the thread?

And since when are you in a position to tell me why and when I can post? You have not even been here for a cup of coffee and you certainly are not in a position to tell me what to post here or anywhere. I do not tell you when to post which is why unless you address me, I do not talk to you at all here. You are worthless here and contribute very little in my opinion and why you have many problems with many here. And when I speak I am using my real name and identity. At least the people that I respect here we talk off of this site from time to time. For the record those individuals mock you often. ;)

Peace

It's not about doing "some" rec or sub-v games. I do them as well. It's about being told you're only going to be doing sub-v games from now on, when you've already demonstrated the capacity to do higher level games, and the person who is replacing you has (according to chseagle) demonstrated a somewhat disturbing lack of rules knowledge and respect for the position.

I would laugh in the face of any varsity official here who wouldn't think it a slap to the face to be told by your assignor that you're only getting sub-v games from now on and would, as BktBallRef insinuated, just be hunky dory with that kind of schedule just because "the kids need good officials." I'd laugh in your face because I'd know you were lying.

How would you feel if after 4-5 years of working B/C Squad games, you were never given a chance to work A-Squad games?

There at the school, I've only done 1 Varsity game (last year due to the regular person being sick). This year the season starts out, the regular person is sick, a new person who does not know the scoreboard or the current rules/regulations is used that is not technically competent enough to do Varsity games first time out would get anyone hot under the collar.

Sure I've done Varsity level games at 3A/4A Regionals & worked the JUCO Tournament, but to be skipped over for a person that is technically not even done any lower level games as table crew, when there's qualified personnel available, is like asking a true blue rookie official (first game ever) to work a rivalry game when there's a 20 year veteran available.

It happens sometimes.

Maybe he'll eventually figure out that the criteria for getting the clock gig on the main game is not necessarily skill or interest. Like many things in life, there are clearly other factors at play....a friend of the AD/Coach/etc. Maybe someone who does a decent job and doesn't irritate the AD/coach with endless minutiae.

No, it's not.

I was using that as an example.

The point is that, I know the ins & outs of the new scoreboard as well as the new rules/regulations, the AD knows my qualifications, yet he chose a person with little/no experience to be Varsity Timer/Scoreboard.

I have no qualms about doing JV & C-Squad games, it's just that how the AD responded is that I may as well be a leper that he wants to keep hiden in a closet by forcing me to remain in the auxilary gym, even though I have the training & experience, as I have previously proven to him that I can handle the main gym.

Again was using an example

Here's the biggest problem I see, eagle. Most of us have been passed over in favor of someone else in in our lives, in basketball or elsewhere, some well justified, some not so much. When this happens, an e-mail to the assignor from you pointing out the shortcomings of the one who was chosen instead of you, is unlikely to help achieve the final desired result.

Others see it differently...
 

...but I understand your need to vent. It sounds like you take pride in what you do, have worked at being good at it, and feels that merits some recognition, part of which would be having you work at a higher level. It may seem trivial to others, but you feel what you do is important to the game, and you're right; it is. You're part of the officiating crew, and the more competent all the members of the crew are, the less likely it is we're going to have that night from hell.

Even for officials, sometimes it's necessary to move on to where you're valued and appreciated, and will get the opportunity you're working for. I hope it works out.

Thank fiasco, for once again pointing out nothing.

If and when I get that call from an assignor, and I'm unhappy about it, I WON'T be whining about it on an Internet discussion board.

BTW, keep in mind we're hearing ONE side of the story here.

Perhaps you'e not as good as you think you are.

Perhaps you overstep your boundaries and stick your nose into parts of the table administration that are not your concern.

Perhaps they were hoping you would quit or stop doing the things you were doing that made you an irritant.

Perhaps they got tired of waiting.

Perhaps there are other reasons they chose the other person over you.

In fact, I'm 100% sure of it.

The issue at hand is that I've been doing table operations in both gyms for the past couple of years with no issues & now for some unknown reason, am being pushed into working only in the auxilary gym.

The information I pass on about recommendations is to help the others get better, it's just that how can the others learn if they do not see someone applying those recommendations & experiencing first hand what is being asked. I've tried coaching/training one on one & it seems to have fallen on deaf ears as if they do not care if doing things wrong or not.

You must not have been as good as you thought you were. That usually does not happen without reason. :p

Peace

One of the primary reasons why I am so upset is due to the fact, that like I have stated previously, I have doing table operations in both gyms for the past couple of years. I have been doing table operations in gym 1 during the MS.JH Boys' Games this year, & when the HS season started all of a sudden am basically pushed out of gym 1 without any explanation or asking.

The first home game (December 12th) the regular Varsity timer/scoreboard was out sick & I was not even asked if I wanted to do Varsity timer. Same thing happened again on Saturday.

The AD knew I was there, yet he acted like I didn't exsist.

It's Not Just You ..
 

Retirement from my day job as a chemist is eight years away. When that time comes, I hope that I'm healthy enough to work high school freshman (4:00 p.m.) and middle school games (3:30 p.m.). Those games could use good officials, and the young, and rookie, officials working them could use good mentors. I can't be working high school varsity games the rest of my life. For some reason, and the mathematics involved escapes me, the kids stay the same age as I get older. Is that fair?

You don't really want to stay the same age, do you?

+1 - the retirement from chemist. Oh and for sure not fair :(

Yes I did, but I spit my gum out in it. :D

I Won't Grow Up, Not A Penny Will I Pinch ...
 

Hey, it works for Peter Pan, and Dorian Gray.

You don't want to show up dressed like Peter Pan to the game site, do you? That might be one of the requirements.

I Will Never Grow A Mustache, Or A Fraction Of An Inch ....
 

Would it be alright if I wear a belt with my green tights?

I do not want any mental images.....

Me neither

I am upset over the situation as this seems to be what always happens to me, I apply all I have & yet I get passed over for those with less experience/training/knowledge.

I am currently waiting for a response back from the Principal &/or superintendent. I am currently not dealing with the AD as it seems that to him I am not visible.

Honestly I am still trying to figure out why this thread is even allowed as it has nothing to do with officiating. This is a personal issue with a volunteer. Who cares that he/she was not asked to continue that position. Good Lord all of us have been passed over for something and you do not see others coming here whining about it.

Peace

The other issue is that for the past couple of years, I've been able to work in both gyms, now without warning, I have been told indirectly via e-mail that will only be allowed to work in gym 2. No explanation or reasoning.

You are correct in that I do enjoy being table personnel, except that the environment has turned a bit hostile due to the AD.

Never saw that one coming...

Ya gotta admit, many of the eagle's threads due get long and often testy......

Eagle - you have a few choices:

1) Leave and find something else to do or do it somewhere else,

2) Stand and fight,

3) Accept it and move on.

As others have said, this is just life in a microcosm. I myself have been "moved" in jobs, none to my liking, and I had choices to make. But, they were my boss. My senior. Someone in a position of power and authority to make decisions. I didn't have to like their choice.

I seriously wish you good luck and hope you find a place who wants and deserves your talents. But, this is not the place to continue to air this (IMO) and believe this has run its course here.........

Needs more than that....