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-   -   Stomach to Knees Traveling? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/84646-stomach-knees-traveling.html)

Mechanicsman Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:15pm

Stomach to Knees Traveling?
 
A1 is laying on his stomach, and he pushes himself to his knees. His knees were in contact with the floor the whole time.
Traveling? Where did you find it?

If the answer is yes, then it raises another question: why would a player be allowed to go from his back to his rear end and not be allowed to go from his front to his knees?

Thanks

just another ref Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:21pm

Going from flat on the stomach to the knees sounds like part of an attempt to stand up.

traveling

Mechanicsman Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 805963)
Going from flat on the stomach to the knees sounds like part of an attempt to stand up.

traveling

That's what I was told, but in the situation I'm thinking of the player just gets to his knees and stays there, perhaps looking to pass...

BktBallRef Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechanicsman (Post 805965)
That's what I was told, but in the situation I'm thinking of the player just gets to his knees and stays there, perhaps looking to pass...

4-44-5
A player holding the ball:
After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand
or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

When he goes from his belly to his knees, he has gotten up and he's traveled.

AKOFL Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:35pm

Getting up to your knees is not mentioned in the list of things you can do once you stop sliding. Pass,shoot,start a dribble or calla timeout. you may not roll over, if flat onl your back you may sit up. So I would say once you are on your stomach starting a dribble is the only way you can get off you belly with the ball in your control.

Mechanicsman Mon Dec 19, 2011 06:48am

Hmmm. Thanks for the ruling, but I still don't understand how it could be legal to sit-up but illegal to get to your knees. Does anyone see the logic behind this?

mbyron Mon Dec 19, 2011 07:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechanicsman (Post 806018)
Hmmm. Thanks for the ruling, but I still don't understand how it could be legal to sit-up but illegal to get to your knees. Does anyone see the logic behind this?

Yes. It's easier to pass when sitting as opposed to lying down, so the rules create an exception for sitting up, which can also be part of "getting up."

just another ref Mon Dec 19, 2011 08:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 806034)
Yes. It's easier to pass when sitting as opposed to lying down, so the rules create an exception for sitting up, which can also be part of "getting up."

It's even harder to pass lying on your stomach. Why didn't they create the exception for that?

mbyron Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 806046)
It's even harder to pass lying on your stomach. Why didn't they create the exception for that?

The didn't need to. You can roll to your side and pass, as long as you don't roll over. :D

Adam Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 806056)
The didn't need to. You can roll to your side and pass, as long as you don't roll over. :D

As long as the actions are part of an attempt to pass the ball, I'm inclined to give the player the benefit of the doubt that he hasn't rolled "over."

BktBallRef Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 806046)
It's even harder to pass lying on your stomach. Why didn't they create the exception for that?

Because the body naturally bends forward, not backwards, at the waist. Didn't you study anatomy in 9th grade PE/Health? ;)

BktBallRef Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 806057)
As long as the actions are part of an attempt to pass the ball, I'm inclined to give the player the benefit of the doubt that he hasn't rolled "over."

That's probably the best item everyone here should take from this thread.

26 Year Gap Mon Dec 19, 2011 05:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 806067)
That's probably the best item everyone here should take from this thread.

That and your tagline.

Mechanicsman Mon Dec 19, 2011 08:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 806066)
Because the body naturally bends forward, not backwards, at the waist. Didn't you study anatomy in 9th grade PE/Health? ;)

This is my best answer. I still don't like the rule, but it's a rule.
Thanks to all who replied.

BillyMac Mon Dec 19, 2011 09:42pm

Kudos To Snaqwells ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 806057)
As long as the actions are part of an attempt to pass the ball, I'm inclined to give the player the benefit of the doubt that he hasn't rolled "over."

This actually sounds good to me.

ga314ref Tue Dec 20, 2011 04:19pm

When you're sitting...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechanicsman (Post 806018)
Hmmm. Thanks for the ruling, but I still don't understand how it could be legal to sit-up but illegal to get to your knees. Does anyone see the logic behind this?

...or lying down, your rump is a natural pivot point.


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