tapped into wrong basket
 

Can you guys help - I keep looking for this and cant find it in the rule book.

B leads A 60-59 in the 4th quarter. A1's try hits the backboard and before the horn sounds B1 taps the ball into A's basket.

Does the basket count?

No.

Did the ball enter the basket before the horn?

Yes the ball goes through before the horn sounds-

Where in the IAABO rulebook does it cover this?

Of course I don't have my rulebook on me, but I will run out at lunch and grab it from my car.

But to answer your question, yes the points are awarded.

5-1-1 and 5-2-1.
Any live ball that enters the basket (except a throw-in) scores at least two points. Why would this not count?

What?

Why not?

If the "tap" was when the try had not ended, then I see nothing wrong with counting the basket as long as the try was still in flight. B touching the ball itself does not necessarily end the try.

Peace

Doesn't matter.

It could if the try had ended and B touching the ball was not associated with the try. No different than the ball hitting the floor and the ball bouncing up in the air and going in the hole after the horn has gone off.

Peace

It is different because the basketball entered the basket before the horn went off.

So the tap by B1 was not a try attempt, but it doesn't matter, because the ball entered the basket, then the horn sounds. So yes, the points are awarded.

Saved me a trip to my car at lunch :D

I understand all of that and why it still matters if we have a try or not at it relates to the horn. People were answering the question without knowing the status of the horn.

Peace

Yes. If the horn sounds before the ball enters the basket, then the ball becomes dead, since there is no longer a try involved. But if it enters the basket before the horn (or before an official's whistle creates a dead ball), then the goal counts. That would be the same as if a player got confused and shot the ball into the wrong basket. A live ball entering the basket scores as a goal.

Correct.

Gotta know those scoring rules (Rule 5) and the live ball/dead ball rules (Rule 6).

huh??

Conclusion?
 

Did you guys get it right?

Does anyone see a possibility of goaltending?

Goaltending involves a try or tap ... at a team's own basket.

In college maybe. But hitting the backboard does not mean much of anything in NF Rules. And even in college the ball must be completely above the rim to be a consideration of being a goal tending violation.

Peace

Yep, but the question (whether the ball had gone through before or after the horn in the OP) had been answered already, so it didn't matter. I wouldn't want someone thinking there's a reason not to count the score here just because the try may have been over.

It seems everybody over thinks sitches, forget buzzer part of question as tap happened before buzzer. I wouldn't think of goaltending as the requirements for goaltending were not mentioned in OP, or you're just adding food for thought?

OK Snaqs, whatever you say.

Peace

If you look at Case 6.7.6 Situation B, I guess it doesn't matter as long as the tap was before the horn.

It does matter, if the tap was by B. In that case, the ball has to be in the basket before the horn to count.

I'd give good odds that APG misread the OP when he said it wouldn't count.

If the tap occurred before the try had ended, I think we'd either have GT or BI. Can't imagine how someone could tap a try into the basket otherwise. We're not talking about a "tip" as occurs when a player attempts to block a shot.

When I read the OP, I pictured a shot or layout and the hits the backboard, and then is coming down towards the basket. Then B hits the ball and it goes into the basket - either before or after the horn sounds.

Well that is the way I read it. I do not think the term "tap" was used in the true sense of the definition. It sounded to me like an explanation of how the ball got into the basket.

Peace

Uhmmm...did you read the original post? Status of the horn was clearly stated.

What is your basis in thinking the basket might not count?

Some of us knew.

So did you guys count the basket or did you waive it?

While gt isn't possible, BI does not require there be a try or tap.

Yes I did. I responded the way I did because the only issue would be is what the result of the try was when the ball was "tapped." It seems to me that the only reason anyone would think that the ball would not count is the "try" had ended. Of course the original situation the ball would count not matter how the ball got into the basket. But if someone thinks the try has ended and the "tap" (which is really an incorrect usage of that word) somehow changed the status of the ball. Why else would you think the ball would not count?

Peace

Both are possible in the OP -- there's not enough info given to determine whether either occured, and the timing (as opposed to GT / BI) seemed to be the point of the question.

A prime example of when one reads a question to fast.

:o

Since when did someone read a question in order to diet or observe a religious tenet?

HaHahhaha.....will even overlook 'osberve'

I give up :o:D

Merry Christmas. Fixed it for ya! No charge.

Is it free because it was late?

Why not? A tap is a try unless .3 or less is on the clock.

He already admitted he read it too fast, but your second sentence isn't relevant to the OP.

A tap is a try even with less than 0.3 on the clock.

But not at the opponent's basket.

Be late. Be needed. Be right. I met all 3 criteria.

You were late and right, but not needed. Took care of that part already. ;)

The horn doesn't have a status. That makes no sense whatsoever.

The ball is batted by B and goes into through the basket. The horn sounds. Count the 2 points.

This ain't that difficult folks.

In Other Words ...
 

This ain't rocket surgery.

It is not a tap if it is at the opponents basket....a tap is essentially defined the same way as a try.

4-41-5 . . . A tap for goal is the contacting of the ball with any part of a player’s hand(s) in an attempt to direct the ball into his/her basket.

So, really, we've talking about a "tip" all along.

You called him on the to, two , or too problem?

The OP called it a tap. By definition, it cannot be a tap. What it is is a bonehead play.

So we all agree the basket counts in the original posting scenario, because the horn was after it went through the basket.

But what if this scenario happens:

B leads A 60-59 in the 4th quarter. A1's try hits the backboard and before the horn sounds, ball caroms off of B1's hands and ricochets high in the air and towards A's basket. While in the air and before the ball hit hits the ring, the horn sounds. The ball then passes through the basket and the net.

So according to some of your posts, in this scenario the basket does NOT count, right? because the ball is dead at the sound of the horn?

correct

+1
 

What JAR said.

Correct...because the ONLY way B can touch the ball is if the try had ended. If they were to touch it before the try were over, it would have been GT or BI (I'm reading the question to say the ball was on its way down).

Correct. And an NCAA crew actually got this play wrong a few years ago in a game at Virginia Tech which caused a lot of memos to be sent out.

If it's still a try, then the period doesn't end until the try ends, so the basket will count.

The official must judge if it's still a try (and if the official is having trouble with the OP and this latest play, it's likely s/he'll have trouble with "when a try ends.")