Once again the "arrogant" tag has been slapped on me.
Lately I've been working some AAU and other things to stay in shape both physically and mentally so that when I go to Camps this summer I'm not behind the eight ball.
The guy assigning called me last night to give me more games and asked me about an incident that happened last Friday.
Here's the sitch....

Team from small town playing 5A (big school) team.
Small town team is good however and it is a tight game at half, (27-24 big school) but small town team only has 5 players.

About midway through 2nd half, one of the kids on STT, makes a comment about the quality of our officiating skills, and so I "T" him up. This is followed by the usual
"play ball and leave the reffing to us" statement.
Player won't leave it alone and so I issue the second "T" and toss him.
Now Coach (parent,volunteer) from STT stands up and says,
"WE ONLY HAVE 5 PLAYERS" so the kid tries to stay on the floor. I say "I don't care (ok, sounds arrogant) that the kid made the choice to say what he said and he's gone!"
Now, Coach from 5A team wants to be nice and tried to play with only 4 players. I don't allow it. So now Coach from STT make the comment to my partner that we are a bunch of "sissys". I must admit I don't think I've ever been called that before.:D
"T" from my partner, and Coach starts to head out the door!
I ask my partner if he tossed him, and he says, "Nope, he's leaving on his own." He actually didn't leave but stood in the doorway to the gym. As usual parents in the stand are making comment like, "WAY TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM THE KIDS", "NOBODY IS HERE TO SEE YOU", blah,blah,blah.... :rolleyes:
More discussion with 5A team about not allowing him to only use 4 players if he has 5 available.
Now Coach from STT in the doorway says "WHY DON'T WE JUST FINISH WITHOUT THE REFS!" SNAP! Back to reality! I've just got my ticket to leave this crap and go home!!!!
So I yell to my partner that we're leaving. His back hurts (not from carrying me however) so he's not arguing. I go to my bag and start to put my stuff away when the Site Super. comes over and tells us that we can't leave. He was actually pretty cool. I tell him that in order for us to stay, STT Coach needs to leave the Gym. He assures me that he'll take care of it.
Long story short, I finally tell the site Super. that if he wants to let 5A team finish with 4, then it's his call and I'll abide by it. Game finishes 4 on 4 and STT wins by three!

Anyway.....
Just telling incident to set up arrogance topic.
So assigner tells me that over the past couple of Tourny's, there have several complaints about me.
Some buzz words used..
Arrogant.
Cocky.
Bigger than the game. (I always like that one)
Acts like he's doing us a favor my being here. (another favorite)
According to assigner, "Nobody questions your ability" (calls etc.)
So, anway, I told him " Fine, if you don't want me to work, that's fine with me!!!"
He still wants me to work, just wanted to let me know the "feedback" he's gotten.

Anway, have any of you ever been slapped with the "arrogant" tag, and what did you change (if anything) to get rid of it.
Thanks, and sorry for the novella.:D:D
Drake

Smile..., even when you don't feel like it.

Drake, I've seen you work (although not closely enough to hear you interact with players/coaches) and I don't see a trace of arrogance in your game.

My guess is that the people who make that claim know or can tell that you have worked at much higher levels and assume that your decisions are made from a "because I said so" mentality.

But it's also possible that there is something very small that you do without realizing it. People who know you don't think anything of it, but people who don't know you pick up on it and have a negative reaction to it.

An example, a D1 ref on my board tells this story. Earlier in his career, maybe at a camp or a low-level college game, he got observed. And the observer told him that when he called a foul, he tended to "furrow his brow" for lack of a better term. Probably b/c he was concentrating on the fouler and shooter. But it made him look mad every time he called a foul. He didn't even know he was doing it. And the players would pick up on it and think that he either had it in for them, or had a chip on his shoulder. He had to consciously work on not looking :mad: . Maybe there's some little thing like that in your game that you're not aware of.

As I said, my guess is that's not the case. It's a case of people not knowing what they're talking about and looking for something to complain about. But next time you're on tape, it might be worth a look.

Chuck

Obviously, we don't know each other Drake, so what I'm about to say may be totally offbase, but...

Since the assignor indicates he's had "several" complaints, maybe there is something in your demeanor that produces that reaction from the teams you ref. Your reply to the assignor, " Fine, if you don't want me to work, that's fine with me!!!", indicates you may need to step back, take a couple of deep breaths, and listen with a less passionate mindset. If that's your approach to coaches and players, it could be construed as arrogant.

I'm telling you, as much as you guys (and ladies) argue about it, "presence" is key to your success as a ref.

As a coach, I really appreciate a ref that's "approachable". Don't get me wrong. I don't expect a ref to take a bunch of crap, but I would like him/her to be marginally friendly prior to the game, and willing to explain a call in a cordial manner during it.

I suggest you have someone tape four or five games, then have an assignor review them with you. Or, better yet, have the assignor watch four or five games, and see if a pattern develops.

Good luck. Your concern shows you care.

Sure - plenty of times. Oh wait - you mean as an official. I thought you were talking about comments from my wife. :p

Drake, I thought the exact same thing as theboys when I read that part of your post. That statement does come off with a bit of arrogance. But I might have said the same thing. And yep, I've been accused of it too. Imagine that! :D

As the others have said, it may be something you're not even conscious of. I'm sure you're an official who keeps control of the game. Oddly enough, some people view that as arrogance. Most times, these people are just looking for something to complain about. 2 or 3 get together and suddenly, there are several complaints.

Just make a mental note the next time you work these games and remember the mentality of the people you're dealing with. I've found that a handshake and introduction before the game goes a long way towards eliminating this type of thing.

My business is sales. In that business I have to speak in front of people that I have never met, know little about in many cases or they know absolutely nothing about me personally. I have to carry myself in a certain way or my speeches or sales talks mean nothing. Many times when I speak in front of people I have a "script" of some kind to follow. I might not follow it word for word, but I follow some kind of outline to cover the major points. Well as an official I do much of the same thing. I try to come up with situations and try to match pre-reheared "scripts" to cover situations that I might face. One of the things it does is take out the emotion of my words. Because we can get upset at times out there or want to say something that we should not say, so these "scripts" help me say the right things or say what I have to in the proper tone because it is familiar to me. Maybe Drake you need to come up with some things that cover different situations so that you do not come off as arrogant. You can get the same point across by coming up with words that are not threatening or sound softer. And yes you need to practice them just as you do your mechanics or your positioning. You might even talk about this in your pregame or other meetings.

I have always said that we are salespeople. That is all officiating really is. No matter what we know, or how good our "product" is, we have to sell ourselves first and anything we do second. And because conflict is not built in these tests, handling conflict or have a presence is very important in what we do. It helps me in sales, it certainly helps me on a basketball court. But enough about my life.

Peace

I had a game like yours a few weeks ago, except the coach wouldn't leave so we did. Wahooo! Lucky me! :)

Anyway, as usual Mick has some good advice. Smile every now & then if you don't want to appear too "arrogant" (whatever that means). Chuck hits on a good point as well: your obvious professionalism is kinda foreign to these folks, so they process it as "arrogance".

Do you get these kinds of comments when working your "real" games? I kinda doubt it.

Many officials who come off as arrogant are perceived that way because they insist on having the last word in any conversation with a coach or player, or having a snappy comeback for every snip from a coach, or interrupting a coach before he or she finishes talking. Sometimes it's beneficial to let a coach vent, or to let him think he's witty. Also, pay attention to the tone of your voice. Don't sound like a teacher speaking to a naughty second grader. And Mick's right, try to smile.

We have an official in our association, not me, but a real good friend. He has been tagged with the arrogant label. When you watch him officite it is obvious why. It is all in the way he runs and gets himself in position. It is hard to describe, he has a high heel kick, his hands are in front of him with his thumbs up and when he get into position, he has this sort of "John Wayne" approach. Unfortunately for him, it is natural. That IS the way he runs, and anytime you talk to him he squares up like John Wayne!! Great guy, not even CLOSE to arrogant, and we have those, it just boils down to his presence. What he has done to "correct" for this is work a little on his running style, but has tried to make himself more "approachable" by coaches. Sometimes he will crack a joke or say something lite hearted early on and that has been somewhat effective. Just some thouths.
BTW, I run like a duck and am just happy to be IN position. Although I do have a nie "ole" thing when there is a foul intransition!

Jeff, I agree 100%. It's the same problem some folks (of course, not me!!!) have with appearing weak. You may not feel weak, but if your eyebrows are up, and you keep turning your head away from the action to listen, instead of firmly asking the person to wait; if your sentences all go up at the end, and if your grin appears rather foolish, well, it doens't matter how certain you are about your calls.

I've been thinking about it like a stage play. I have gone and watched the better refs and then tried to imitate specific physical motions I see in them. Drake, you are definitely one of the best refs, I've seen you and I know. But you might be able to learn something by watching someone who is good, but more relaxed, or appears more personable. At the JH and HS level, you might even talk to a coach after a game, and ask who he would suggest you watch. Or ask your assignor, who gave the comments.

Drake, I also wonder, from some things you said in your original post, is WNBA out for you this year?

[Edited by rainmaker on May 1st, 2003 at 12:24 PM]

I noted several things that you did in this sitch that could be perceived as arrogant. First, I noted to your statement to the crowd. The phrase "I don't care," no matter how intended, makes you sound arrogant. You probably mean that it's not relevant, but if you really meant I don't care, that indicates a bit of an attitude. Additionally, you started down a road of trouble by responding to the crowd, and probably provided more fuel to the fire and more ammo for their argument against you. Ignoring them would have been a better position to take, or responding much more neutrally - "he behaved in xyz manner, and that is a T." In heated situations, neutral, non-judgmental statements are best.

The second thing I reacted to was your readiness to ditch the game. You had no cause to leave. You did have cause to eject the coach, but you don't indicate that you did so. It appears from my reading that, at this point, the situation got under your skin a bit. If it did, you may have been showing to all watching an attitude that they don't expect from a ref.

The last thing I noted was what has already been a addressed, your statement to the assigner, which can be taken muliple ways but may indicate to a listener that you think you are above it all.

You may only appear this way when things go south and players or coaches behave in an inappropriate manner. I would give the same guidance that I give my players when we deal with an unsportsmanlike team, a trainwreck of a table (fouls wrong, score wrong, etc.) or a difficult official. We control only our behavior. We may get frustrated by what is going on around us, but we still have a task to do - play a game. We must remain above the fray - I insist on that from my players, assistant coaches, and parents.

You have a task to accomplish that must override all other impulses going on in your brain. You need to be the leader on the court when everybody else is letting their emotions get to them. Emotional reactions in heated situations are the most difficult to control, but you must show that control. And is it possible that in the lower level games you allow yourslf to be frustrated by the completely unknowledgeable and immature behavior?

And maybe I am way off base and you already appear calm under fire, and that unbelievable calm makes you look aloof and arrogant - I'm not watching you, so it is hard for me to say. Just some thoughts based on your description of events.

Drake, I think I know more about this sit than anyone else here, with the exception of Kelvin (BTW, do you know how he is doing in the middle east?). I think a lot of the perception stems from the fact that you don't take crap from players, coaches, etc and too many of your partners will take an excessive amount. Your look is distinctive enough that you will be remembered by people. I have had plenty of people describe you to me to know that they might not know your name, but they do know who you are.

IMO, too many guys (nd gals for that matter) around here don't have the stones to take care of business, you do and will suffer by comparison. What league is playing right now? I have a stress fracture in my foot and am not running so I haven't done anything.

I agree with Rut more often than most, and I'm going to do it again. I've never really weighed in on the "presence vs rules knowledge" debate. Rut makes an excellent analogy here, and I want to take it one step further.

Even the slickest salesman will eventually lose his customers if his product sucks. And a homely salesman with a product everyone wants will retire a rich man.

I'm taking my officiating test on June 2. I think it'll be nice to make a little extra money when I can squeeze it in with coaching, and if the parents ever get bad enough to make me want to give up coaching, I'll have a little experience officiating. I'm sure I'll do great on the rules test. But I know I'm going to have to work at the presence. I'm guessing it will come when I get confident in where I'm supposed to be when, and in my mechanics.

Perception is 9/10ths of reality (unfortunately). I think all of the suggestions that have been made are valid. I try not to say anything to the coaches other than answering direct questions. I had a guy from my chapter tell me this year, after my first heated confrontation with a coach in a tournament, that,"silence cannot be misquoted."

Lets seeeee, parents, fans, wantobe coaches, lets face they don't have a clue so, they get personal to make them feel better about themselves. I don't think you need to change anything. Good luck.

It's AAU ball
 

This is AAU ball, for crying out loud. I have watched it, but not reffed it. It is not the same, in my opinion, as regular HS ball. It seems to me that almost all players and most coaches have an attitude problem. I have read your discussions on reffing AAU ball before on this board. So, what is my point? Prepare yourself mentally before the game. It is my observation that the refs (and coaches) are disrespected more by the players and fans at these games than during the regular season. Knowing ahead of time what may happen will help prepare your mindset on how you will ACT (not react) in the heat of the moment. I think that will help the overall perception of you, the ref.

Thanks for all your responses. Good points all and I will take many of them and see if they work.
A couple of points.
FIrst my comment to the assigner.
My main point was, I don't need to take the abuse from parents,Coaches etc., for the $15 bucks a game we're getting paid. It was also not as confrontational a statement as it sounds when taken by itself. He was not offended and understood.

Second, my College and High school season went very well.
NO conflicts with Coaches, players etc. So I know who "butters my bread"

Third, as RefinPA states, "this is AAU ball"
So I know that the "source" of complaints has to be considered. But I read a statement one time that stuck with me. "If you're going to believe everything good people say about you, then you also have to believe the bad things they say."
Just wanting to make sure that the "bad things" I hear, don't over power the "good things".

Drake

Re: It's AAU ball
 

I have made this point over and over again that AAU is different. But the one thing about AAU is, you might be watched by someone that is very influencial in officiating, watching you officiate for the first time. So even if it is AAU or any league outside of the normal league, you still should maintain some kind of professionalism, despite the people you are dealing with. I will admit that I do act a little different when officiating an AAU Tournament or League of some kind. I tend to be more vocal and teach the game more to kids and coaches if need be. Not because I want someone to win over someone else, but usually if they learn the game at that time of the year, it helps us all during the regular season. And you also do not have a locker-room to run to at half time and between games in most cases. So you tend to be around to be asked questions. But I still think it is important to adhere to as much professionalism, despite the behavior of everyone else.

Peace

Just so that you know Drake, as your partner for that game, I saw you trying to keep the kid in the game and you didn't come off as arrogant to me.
BTW I did tell the asignor that you gave the kid every chance to chill out before you tossed him.

The AAU games I work are generally "more relaxed" than actual school games. Maybe the fact that you expect the same "professionalism" from players and coaches in the AAU games comes off as "arrogant." In an AAU game, if both coaches wanted to play 4-on-4, I'd probably allow it. That's just me.... if I had a partner who wanted to enforce the 5-on-4 thing, I'd go along with that too. Sounds like it might just be a difference in how strict people think the rules ought to be enforced in off-season AAU.

Or maybe you have some mannerisms that some people see as confidence and others see as arrogance.

Either way, if you aren't getting those comments in school ball, you have to decide if AAU is important enough for you to care.

Z

Just make sure you undrestand the difference between shootout tournaments (4 games in 2 days for the sake of playing high-level ball) and the national qualifying tournaments. If it is a national qualifier, we are talking about a serious competition with a lot on the line (especially in my region where we routinely have a couple of teams ranked top-ten in the country in an age group).

I am sure that most making these comments understand this, but all should be aware. National qualifying is what many players work for all year (for several years) to achieve, and the qualifying events are some of the biggest games of their year. If they are HS, it gets them to tournaments with tons of college recruiters, which is important for their future.

I have personally officiated a regional qualifier or national qualifier (whatever they actually called it), where the winner of the tournament moves on and everyone else stays home. These games were never just "laid back" at any time. These were just as intense if not sometimes more intense than many HS games I had done. And we were never allowed to just allow things like 5 on 4 just for the hell of it. We had to adhere to the rules, because if we did not the assignors or tournament directors would not allow us to officiate these games at all (not that this is a bad thing :D). And I have done local tournaments where AAU teams from all over the country come in to play for prizes and money. Lebron James broke his wrist at an AAU Tournament that I have done in past years, last year. These AAU teams take hundred of dollars to run and enter tournaments. They are not just going to go along with stuff that is not apart of the rules if they know it should not be allowed (and I am talking about their knowledge of course). But that is the way it is here. Just like any discussion, it could be different in other areas of the country.

Peace

To Hawks Coach and J. Rutledge

I agree that some AAU tourneys are intense. Since the "super" told the refs to continue 5 on 4, I assumed that that wasn't the case in this sitch.

Z

I agree that Drake's sitch would not have happened the same way at a national qualifier. However, I have seen and dealt with refs that treat all AAU as equal and do not recognize the significance of the qualifier.

I would also say that I have always appreciated getting a polished and professional ref at every contest, and so do my players. Even if it doesn't count, we still want a good game. Good refs can do a lot to ensure we have a good game. If we can dribble, cut, pass, catch, shoot, rebound and defend well, that helps too :)

Yeah, I've done my share of these intense off-season games too. But what happened to the JRutledge who refused to work AAU & other out of season games?

I should expect that.
 

You need to go back an read my posts, instead of trying to tell me what I said or what I am thinking. Considering that I seem to actually know what I said, I think those comments were only about AAU. It is just a guess, but it was only AAU. I have not done any AAU games in over a year. I have done High School Leagues, which have much more credibility and tend to be more fun considering you are seeing teams that you will actually officiate during the "regular season." And if I attend an actual Licensed IHSA Camp, it is going to be with High School teams, not AAU teams. But then again, you think I said presence was more important than rules knowledge (something I never said).

Peace

Re: I should expect that.
 

http://www.gmcgriff.com/refonline/ww...ges/46635.html

http://www.gmcgriff.com/refonline/ww...ges/46660.html

You need to read, very, very carefully. You surely did not do it the first time.
 

<i>Post 1:</i>

<b>"Here is the inherent problem with AAU to begin with. You are asking officials (in shape and not) to do several games in a row with 2 officials total."</b>

Interesting, not a single word about myself.


<b>"I am in great shape, but by the 3rd and 4th games, I get tired if I did the games straight myself. So officials that have been around the block, pass on these games."</b>

Only comment about myself was how tired I get and the type of shape I am in.

<b>"And the folks that cannot buy a quality game during the "real season" are the main people left doing AAU or any summer time leagues. Just the way it is."</b>

I do not see any words that specifically deal with my personal situation. Maybe you do, but you are good at reading into stuff.

<i>Post 2</i>

<b>But understand Yaw, that your situation seems to be the exception. AAU games are done during the off-season and officiated by officials that are coming up or not regular officials.</b>

Speaking specifically of one person's situation.


<b>So a JV/Freshman official during the "regular season" are doing varsity and college level game during the spring or summer. That is just the nature of the beast.</b>

Again this comment has nothing to do with me either.


<b>Not everyone is doing AAU tournaments or HS Summer Leagues around the country. Just a fact.</b>

This is true. Not everyone that I know is doing any basketball at this time. Not if you are a multiple sport official espcicially. Especially right now, this is Baseball, Softball, Soccer, Track and Boy's Volleyball season for many Basketball officials. They already have committments in most cases. Kind of hard to schedule basketball game on a Saturday, when you have a double header and you do not know when it is going to end.

<b>And for multiple sport officials like myself, I am doing baseball games on a daily basis, I do not have time to officiate a basketball game except for Sunday. I would like a day off.</b>

This is true during the <b>spring.</b> It is baseball season right now for many right now. In my area there are AAU shootouts and tournaments going on right now, but many kids are playing other sports and are in school. Ya know that school thing just seems to get in the way. But when the summer starts, when HS have the gyms are open and other facilities availible to host a HS Summer League, maybe I will be there to officiate those. But then again, you probably think in early May the school year is out. I mean it was like 61 degrees most of the day yesterday during my High School doubleheader. That might constitute summer in some folks eyes. Feels like spring to me. ;)

I thought you were going to find a post with some comments I made last year sometime about AAU. Because I did say I was not doing anymore AAU. I have not done an AAU game in over a year. And do not see myself doing any more when all the camps and leagues I currently do are HS teams. But then again, we all digress.

Re: You need to read, very, very carefully. You surely did not do it the first time.
 

Don't get your panties in a knot, I asked a question concerning your apparent change of heart. Apparently you did, or didn't, or will, or won't, I can't quite figure it out.

Rest of the story.
 

Just a nice way of telling you have to read better. Apparantly you did not understand the original comments. And the comments I made were almost a year ago, not a week ago about AAU. But then again, you probably think the world is still flat, just like your........

Good day.


Peace

Re: Rest of the story.
 

Not apparently, obviously. Asking a question comes from misunderstanding the facts. If you changed your mind, fine, that's all you had to say.

You will be #1 on my list.
 

I really do not what I would have changed my mind about? But then again you are thinking I took a position that I never did. So that is something you have to work out. ;)

I will make sure when I make life changing decisions, you will be the first to know. :rolleyes:

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on May 5th, 2003 at 11:23 AM]

Re: You will be #1 on my list.
 

I'm not sure I would equate working AAU games with a life changing decision.

Re: Re: You will be #1 on my list.
 

Well you might not say it does, but the manner in which you asked the question, it sounds like it to me. But then again, I do not recall saying I did an AAU game recently. But I guess you can read into that because I commented on AAU ball. So if I comment on Little League, does that mean I did a game the day before?. Typical Dan. :rolleyes:

Peace

Now children, children,

I believe both of you need a time out after which you can kiss and make up!!

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref Quote: Originally posted by JRutledge ... And I have done local tournaments where AAU teams from all over the country come in to play for prizes and money. Lebron James broke his wrist at an AAU Tournament that I have done in past years, last year. Peace Yeah, I've done my share of these intense off-season games too. But what happened to the JRutledge who refused to work AAU & other out of season games?

Well, maybe you'll claim that working AAU last season is not recent. That's fine. And maybe you'll claim that asking "what happened to the JRutledge who refused to work AAU & other out of season games" is somehow...I don't know what but I expect we'll find out soon enough.

Anyway, it's no biggie, as I already said it's just a question, but feel free to keep dancing. My stop's coming up so I'll be getting off here.

I dunno...if it's all the same to you I would rather kiss JR!

http://www.thebritishclub.com/images/chimp.jpg

Re: You will be #1 on my list.
 

I guess this thread IS about arrogance.

Remember when........
 

Dan, I made the comments last March after telling a story about a situation that took place after a game in an AAU Qualifying Tournament. Remember when a "coach" was complaining that I did not have an IHSA patch on my shirt during an AAU game? I have not done another AAU game since. From March 2002 to May 2003 seems like a long time to me. Especially when I was constantly saying <b>no</b> to folks that asked me to do them. Oh well, we all look at the world differently. I think we have established that. But then again, you are used to telling me what I think about things, rather than reading the actual comments ;)

Peace

HELLO, MODERATOR....PLEASE DELETE THREAD NOW....

I don't know ... the picture of the chimp with big lips is pretty funny.

I got a laugh.
 

I agree, the picture of the chimp is rather funny. :D

Peace

Re: I got a laugh.
 

Hmmmm....yeah, it is pretty funny.

But the rest of it stinks...;)

I dunno...if it's all the same to you I would rather kiss JR!

[/B][/QUOTE]http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/A...h_attitude.jpg