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-   -   Substitution help ASAP (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/84241-substitution-help-asap.html)

Eastshire Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 804469)
This post ties for the dumbest thing posted on the Internet. The kid was not injured. I may as well quit driving for fear that someone may sue me someday.

I get that the coach may decide his kid isn't going to play. But this isn't an eligibility rule as those are set by the state (at least here). This is a coach deciding he doesn't want to put an eligible sub back into the game because of a team rule. Nothing more.

Here's a question for you. Suppose that the fifth player got injured in the act of shooting and the "suspended" kid is a 12% free throw shooter. So the coach gets to decide if the kid can play and then gets to pick the shooter from the four on the floor?
So? It's still not your responsibility to rule on eligibility. If something smells fishy to you, file a game report. If the state doesn't like it, they'll find a suitable punishment.

Rich Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 804586)
So? It's still not your responsibility to rule on eligibility. If something smells fishy to you, file a game report. If the state doesn't like it, they'll find a suitable punishment.
I've been leaning this way for the last day or so, just trying to find reasons why it's not a great idea.

I respect coaches that have rules -- it always warms my heart to see a coach pull a kid who gets himself whacked. But even I, the cynical official, finds it ridiculous that a school would be willing to play with four players over it.

So, yes, I would allow it and I would be filing a report with the state office and would include anything that the coach told me in the report.

Speaking of which -- I had to have a student fan removed last night from a game, so I need to file a report.

habram Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18am
Substitution help
 
I do agree with all that stated if the caoch says that a player is injured or not available then we must continue the game without questions

KCRC Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:21am
So, it sounds like the consensus is the coach determines eligibility. From a practical standpoint, I think that is a good idea. The only problem then is that the rule requiring 5 players really has no teeth.


In the OP, the school had a rule that any T requires the offender to sit for the rest of the game. Well, what if the coach has a rule: any player who shoots before the ball has been passed 4 times is suspended for the rest of the game. You ask for a fifth player, coach says he has no other eligible players. You say OK. If so, then the rule really isn't a rule IMO.

bob jenkins Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:26am
In any situation like that (esp. if it's a "School rule" as opposed to a "league rule"), that information is going in a game report. That should be done whether you fall on the "force the team to play with five" or "allow the team to play with four" side of the debate. SOmeone (AD, state, etc.) will get it corrected for future games.

rockyroad Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:42am
Again - these are not issues of "eligibilty". Those rules are determined by the State Associations (number of practices, grades, being at school the day of a game, etc., etc.). What we are talking about in this thread is "availability" of players...and if a Coach says that #32 is not available - then he ain't available. We have no rules backing to force a Coach to play someone after they tell us the player is unavailable.

RookieDude Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 804632)
Again - these are not issues of "eligibilty". Those rules are determined by the State Associations (number of practices, grades, being at school the day of a game, etc., etc.). What we are talking about in this thread is "availability" of players...and if a Coach says that #32 is not available - then he ain't available. We have no rules backing to force a Coach to play someone after they tell us the player is unavailable.
+1

I used the word "eligible" in my posts..."available" is what I should have said.

rockyroad Wed Dec 14, 2011 01:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude (Post 804637)
+1

I used the word "eligible" in my posts..."available" is what I should have said.
They really are two different things...and we shouldn't worry about either one. The conversation is short and sweet:

"Coach, we need a sub."

"I don't have anyone available."

"OK. We go with 4."

And that's really all there is to it.

BillyMac Wed Dec 14, 2011 06:34pm
Short And Sweet ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 804632)
Coach says that #32 is not available - then he ain't available.
Wow. Some common sense. How refreshing.

Adam Wed Dec 14, 2011 07:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 804824)
Wow. Some common sense. How refreshing.
Yeah, cause he's the first in the thread....

Scratch85 Wed Dec 14, 2011 07:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 804848)
Yeah, cause he's the first in the thread....
Respect don't come easy in these parts and it surely ain't common. :D

I heard you early on.

Welpe Wed Dec 14, 2011 08:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 804848)
Yeah, cause he's the first in the thread....
Your posts are banned in Connecticut.

moref Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:45pm
Well I guess we are split on this.Is there really a wrong way to do it.If your evaluator was there and state rules guy was there what would you really do?

bob jenkins Thu Dec 15, 2011 09:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by moref (Post 804880)
Well I guess we are split on this.Is there really a wrong way to do it.If your evaluator was there and state rules guy was there what would you really do?
I'm sure there is a wrong (and right) way. Until the FED comes out with guidance, the wrong (and right) way will likely vary by state. Until the state comes out with guidance, the wrong (and right) way will likely vary by local association. etc.

Given that no guidance has been given, I would NOT force the kid to play. I would complete a game report on the incident to try to get state guidance for any future occurrence.

Adam Thu Dec 15, 2011 09:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by moref (Post 804880)
Well I guess we are split on this.Is there really a wrong way to do it.If your evaluator was there and state rules guy was there what would you really do?
I would do what I said I would do, and provide my reasoning if asked.


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