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-   -   "Odd" Prep School Rules ??? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/84126-odd-prep-school-rules.html)

BillyMac Sat Dec 10, 2011 06:57pm

"Odd" Prep School Rules ???
 
I observed a girls junior varsity prep school game today. Connecticut prep school use an "odd" hybrid version using both NFHS and NCAA rules. The visiting team, wearing white, I told you the rules were "odd", has a player wearing the numeral 02, another 03, and another 05. Are these numerals legal in any rule set?

JugglingReferee Sat Dec 10, 2011 07:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 803455)
I observed a girls junior varsity prep school game today. Connecticut prep school use an "odd" hybrid version using both NFHS and NCAA rules. The visiting team, wearing white, I told you the rules were "odd", has a player wearing the numeral 02, another 03, and another 05. Are these numerals legal in any rule set?

Code:

int c = 5;
is the same as
Code:

int c = 05;
But

Code:

char string[50] = "05";
is not the same as
Code:

char string[50] = "5";

grunewar Sat Dec 10, 2011 07:22pm

nuf sed

26 Year Gap Sat Dec 10, 2011 08:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 803462)
nuf sed

Maybe even more.

BillyMac Sun Dec 11, 2011 07:31am

Numbers, Numerals, Metric System ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 803462)
Nuf sed

From the NFHS: Each team member shall be numbered on the front and back of the team jersey with plain Arabic numerals. The following numbers are legal: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 00, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55. A team member list shall not have both numbers 0 and 00.

I think that this means that since the "number" 2 is legal, then 02 would also be legal. But the last line, with the word "both" seems to indicate that 0 and 00 are not the same "numbers", when according to mathematics, they actually are the same number. I'm not referring to "spirit and purpose" here (computer statistics), I'm just referring to the rule language. As I was watching the game, I checked my rule book. 02 was not listed as legal. My first thought was that it must be illegal, but then I started thinking about the rule language (numbers, numerals, 0 and 00). If there was both a 2, and an 02, that would probably be illegal, but I'm not quite sure why, because 02 is illegal, or because 2 and 02 are duplicates. But just a single 02, no 2, I'm on the fence, which is why I'm asking about rule sets other than the NFHS.

From JugglingReferee: char string [50] = "05" is not the same as char string [50] = "5".

Sorry, I don't speak code, nor do I speak Canadian metric system code. Does this mean that the NFHS considers 02 (alone) to be a legal, or an illegal, number (numeral)? grunewar, and 26 Year Gap, both agree with JugglingReferee. I'm just not sure what JugglingReferee answer to my question was. The single number 02, legal, or illegal, in any rule set?

bob jenkins Sun Dec 11, 2011 09:53am

By a strict reading, 02 would be illegal.

I wouldn't be a plumber about it.

26 Year Gap Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 803576)
From the NFHS: Each team member shall be numbered on the front and back of the team jersey with plain Arabic numerals. The following numbers are legal: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 00, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55. A team member list shall not have both numbers 0 and 00.

I think that this means that since the "number" 2 is legal, then 02 would also be legal. But the last line, with the word "both" seems to indicate that 0 and 00 are not the same "numbers", when according to mathematics, they actually are the same number. I'm not referring to "spirit and purpose" here (computer statistics), I'm just referring to the rule language. As I was watching the game, I checked my rule book. 02 was not listed as legal. My first thought was that it must be illegal, but then I started thinking about the rule language (numbers, numerals, 0 and 00). If there was both a 2, and an 02, that would probably be illegal, but I'm not quite sure why, because 02 is illegal, or because 2 and 02 are duplicates. But just a single 02, no 2, I'm on the fence, which is why I'm asking about rule sets other than the NFHS.

From JugglingReferee: char string [50] = "05" is not the same as char string [50] = "5".

Sorry, I don't speak code, nor do I speak Canadian metric system code. Does this mean that the NFHS considers 02 (alone) to be a legal, or an illegal, number (numeral)? grunewar, and 26 Year Gap, both agree with JugglingReferee. I'm just not sure what JugglingReferee answer to my question was. The single number 02, legal, or illegal, in any rule set?

fwiw, I was agreeing with grunewar that it was Overly Officious Calculating.:D

BillyMac Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:56am

No Offense To Plumbers ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 803603)
By a strict reading, 02 would be illegal. I wouldn't be a plumber about it.

Nor would I. Just one of those book learnin' situations.

BillyMac Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:00pm

It's That Darn Metric System ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 803624)
I was agreeing with grunewar that it was Overly Officious Calculating.

And I still can't figure out what JugglingReferee was trying to say. I don't know whether to agree with him, or to disagree with him, or to agree to disagree with him, or to disagree to agree with him.

26 Year Gap Sun Dec 11, 2011 01:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 803636)
And I still can't figure out what JugglingReferee was trying to say. I don't know whether to agree with him, or to disagree with him, or to agree to disagree with him, or to disagree to agree with him.

Whatever it ws, he forgot to say "eh" at the end of the sentence.

jTheUmp Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 803636)
And I still can't figure out what JugglingReferee was trying to say. I don't know whether to agree with him, or to disagree with him, or to agree to disagree with him, or to disagree to agree with him.

Computer programmer humor. If you're writing computer code, you get to declare a variable as a specific type, and the type you declare has certain (that may be different for other types of variables).

Code:

int c = 5;
int c1 = 05;
int c3 = 000005;

"int" in this case stands for "Integer"... ie: a whole number. The zeros in front of the number 5 do not matter in this case, because all three of the examples I used are equal to the number 5.

Code:

char string[4] = "5",
char string[4] = "05"

These are examples of character strings. In this case, each one is 4 characters long. In these examples, we have " 5" and " 05" respectively. Since character strings are compared literally, these two values are NOT identical.

In other words, when you're asking if 5 and 05 are identical, computer programmers like me have to ask "what data type are you using?" before we can answer your question.

So, to know if 05 is a legal FED basketball number, we need to know if the list of valid numbers in the rulebook is intended to be "Integers" (which would mean 05 is legal) or "Strings" (which would make 05 illegal). I am not aware of a casebook ruling either way.

JugglingReferee Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:06pm

Sorry about that BillyMac. I've been writing a lot of code lately, and it just kinda hit me.

It was my way of saying what bob said. I ain't going to look for trouble. lol

ga314ref Mon Dec 12, 2011 02:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 803749)
Computer programmer humor. If you're writing computer code, you get to declare a variable as a specific type, and the type you declare has certain (that may be different for other types of variables).

Code:

char string[4] = "5",
char string[4] = "05"

These are examples of character strings. In this case, each one is 4 characters long. In these examples, we have " 5" and " 05" respectively. Since character strings are compared literally, these two values are NOT identical.

Those are actually arrays.

BillyMac Mon Dec 12, 2011 07:25am

And I'm One Who Doesn't ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 803749)
Computer programmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ga314ref (Post 803783)
Those are actually arrays.

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

silverpie Mon Dec 12, 2011 09:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 803455)
I observed a girls junior varsity prep school game today. Connecticut prep school use an "odd" hybrid version using both NFHS and NCAA rules. The visiting team, wearing white, I told you the rules were "odd", has a player wearing the numeral 02, another 03, and another 05. Are these numerals legal in any rule set?

Iowa girls. (This is done, I think, to allow more players, because IGHSAU also restricts one team to odd numbers and the other to even.)


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