K-State/West Virgina Almost Blarge
 

Did anyone else catch the almost, closest, etc I've ever seen to a none blarge call last night during the K-State game? I was trying to find a video of the play but have yet to come across one. For those of you who saw the play, you know exactly what I'm talking about. For those of you who didn't let me try and summarize the play the best I can.

It happened late in the 2nd half with K-State trailing by 2 I believe. Drive originated from T's side and the contact occurred probably 2 or 3 feet above the arc and closer to the edge of the lane on L's side. T and L had double whistles and L came out banging charge and T had both his fist raised up in the air and was ready to bang it a block. The camera angle was great as you could see both officials with both signals. Ultimately they went with a charge as the L took the call. The problem I'm having is that everyone in the whole gym who was focused on the T knew exactly what he had, a block, even though he had not banged the hips yet and everyone who was focused on the L knew exactly what he had, a charge.

I was sitting there watching the play and thinking to myself that this may be the first time I've seen a blarge on National TV and if they don't call a blarge how are they going to explain this one. If anyone saw this play I'd like to hear some insight on the play or if anyone could scrounge up the video that would be great! Be interesting to hear what John Higgins had to say after the game about the whole deal.


It just goes to show that even on the biggest stage that sometimes it comes back down to fundamentals as the outside official.

I saw it. I thought for a minute they would go blarge.

I had to explain to my girlfriend why I got so excited.

Also, as I think about it again...at what point does the trail's call become "official"?

I think we can say with (near) certainty that he was not, in fact, raising both his arms in the air to celebrate his partner getting to call a PC foul. Probably fair to assume that he was going to call a block.

Can he bail out of his call at that point? Or did this crew screw up and should have gone with the double foul?

Where is it written that one cannot "bail out of one's call" at any point?

Speaking Fed, oh you know in that silly thing called the Case book that you evidently don't like.

No, he asked the question, the same one I have asked before: When does a signal, or, in this case apparently, a partial signal, become binding? It is undisputed, I think, that in no other situation is a signal binding at all.
So when, and why, is it binding in this case?

Do not feed the bears

A signal has been given once it has been received. If someone could tell you were indicating a block, you've given enough of it to be received. Likewise for a charge. When both signals has been sufficiently given in such that it was apparent what each person had, you are stuck with a blarge.

As for why it is the case in this situation, well, we've been through that before. Two judgments of the same play have been made and communicated. You can default to one or the other through some automatic protocol but that doesn't make the resulting call the right call. For that matter, it is probably so close that you could make a valid argument that either call was right.

Good answer. Perhaps it will impress the jury. Now for the rebuttal.



So what? On any other play, the official can make a signal, then go with something else. If called upon for an explanation, it's simply, "I made a mistake, which I realized afterward." This can apply to either the signal or the call itself. Does this look good? Of course not. But it is a part of the human element.
Nothing we do insures that any call is the right call. The only thing certain if you go with a blarge is that the wrong call is a part of the call.

I saw it live...but didn't see what the outside official (can't remember if he was C or T) did.

However, a few seconds later you can see one of the officials saying to a player: "I never signaled block."

Not seeing it all, I have to believe him... he knows there's cameras all over the place. If he signaled block he wouldn't have a choice.

He brought his hands up and started to bring them down (to get the call correct) then realized his partner had a whistle. They probably came down 4 to five inches. The player on the floor who had been blocked saw it and thought he had earned the call. As soon as the signal came in for a charge he immediately went to that official pointing out the other official had called a block.

this play illustrates a couple of things:

1) L should have the responsibility on drives to the basket. (it is ALWAYS easier to officiate a play coming toward you rather than moving away from you.)

2) On a drive to the basket, IF either outside official (C or T) have a whistle - you should "blow & hold". (use closed-fist to stop clock and see if L has a whistle prior to making your foul signal.)

3) Basketball is basketball regardless of the level....the same plays occur in every game and officials (even the best ones) make the same mistakes.

1) In our area, we've really been stressing that T or C should stay with a drive from one's PCA, all the way to the basket. And L can cover the secondary defenders.
2) I pre-game this ... "Let's not be too quick with the secondary signal -block/charge - I can put up the "stop clock/closed fist signal", and if you have a call, also, we can quickly sort it out and decide who takes it. This will overcome the "blarge", and send a message to all concerned that we are a crew, not two or three separate officials.
3) Agreed.

Without seeing it is looks like he just dropped out of the play after realizing his partner had a call. At the college level they want to defer these calls more and more to the Lead official.

Peace

If you give me a time for the play, I can put it up.

It will be in the second half and I'm looking at the play by play log and it's either going to be just before the 8:05 or 1:53 mark. Let me know if those turn up anything. If not I'll keep looking at the play by play log.

It was at 1:53 in the 2nd Half. It was #32's 5th foul and it would be awesome if you could clip the entire sequence from the foul to the dialog between the trail & the coach. Thanks!

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The T was signalling double foul, not block. ;)

Ha! The 2 fisted foul signal!

Looked like a block to me. :)

I think the T was celebrating the L's call.

"NAILED IT!!!"

I also find it amusing anytime that Bob Huggins looks like the rational coach on the benches.

The T put two fists in the air. That's the signal to stop the clock. On a blocking signal, the fists become open and the space between thumb/ring finger are what hits the waist. Therefore, two fists in the air are not a block signal. He just reeeaaaallllyyyyyy wanted the clock to stop, so he stopped it twice.

And not that it means much, I have what the L has.

The fists are used in NCAAM/W.

I think anyone would look rational next to Frank Martin

I had a charge. Just for my knowledge, what part of that made you go block?

I have a block too...I have the defender moving forward after the offensive player is airborne and thus no LGP.

Block, IMO. B1 moving into A1. But really close, even in replay.

And I agree with the "two calls don't make a double call" philosophy. However, I don't know the NCAAM rule on that, without looking it up. I know the NCAAW version of those situations involves doing a sensible thing, by rule, and conferencing about which call the crew wants to go with of the two (or three). For those that subscribe to the the "one official has a block, one official has a charge, therefore we have to administer a blarge" theory: When one official has a foul, and one official has a travel, should we administer a fravel? I think common sense should dictate that officials talk about what they each saw and called and why, and then go from there. (I realize some rule sets do not allow for that in some situations, however.)

Is there anything wrong (let's talk college and/or NFHS) with the L and T getting together <b><i>real</i></b> quick to discuss what the right call should have been? Obviously this is why we should have eye contact on a double whistle, but how is this double whistle any different than me whispering to a partner that I saw someone else tip the ball out of bounds?

Obviously the two preliminary signals contradict each other, but what harm comes of a quick discussion?

You do not need to have a discussion to make this call and I think that would be inappropriate. At least not other than making eye contact and making a call. All this will do is bring on more debate as to why the call was made IMO.

Peace

Given a double whistle with NO prelim signal(s), I agree. But with the prelim signal(s) I would think you save more face (and have a better chance of getting the call right!) if you conference real quick.

And I'm surprised no one brought this up yet...is the T obligated to buy the beer after the game?:D

The problem is the rules do not support your position. This rule is exactly the same a the NCAA level as it is at the NF level.

Peace

The only time you can get together under NCAA-M rules after conflicting signals on a block/charge play is if the play involves the restricted area. Otherwise you're stuck with a double foul.

Since I'm not as well-versed in 3-man, can someone give some insight into whose call this should be? I mean, I know it's in an intersecting place on the court in terms of coverage, but whose primary is it? Seems like the play originated in the T's area, but the secondary defender is coming from the L's area.

For a guy that only works HS, thanks for clarifying for me!

L's call. The offensive player didn't get the ball until he was in the lane, and the contact is clearly in the lane.

I saw the same as APG: defender moves into airborne shooter, thus forfeiting LGP.

Both officials signal and come together...This is the discussion that takes place:

Trail: Oh s*** how are we getting out of this mess.
Lead: You thought the player was in the restricted area...righttttt
Trail: No..er...Oh I see... YES I thought he was in which is why I was calling a Block
Lead: Well he wasn't in so it will be a charge.
Trail: Phew...Good Save :)

This is one way out of a sticky situation... Or it might work better to actually call both and go to POI but at least you have options. :p