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-   -   Dead Ball Foul (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/83919-dead-ball-foul.html)

Refsmitty Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:08am

Dead Ball Foul
 
10-3-7 states the following:

ART. 7 . . . Intentionally or flagrantly contacting an opponent when the ball is
dead and such contact is not a personal foul.

Can there be a common (personal) foul during a dead ball that is not a T?

APG Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:09am

Foul committed by/on an airborne shooter

tref Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:11am

4-19-1 & the note

Refsmitty Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:11am

Ahhh...
 
But any other contact foul during a dead ball has to be a T - correct?

tjones1 Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 802581)
But any other contact foul during a dead ball has to be a T - correct?

Correct.

Refsmitty Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:12am

What I was looking for - thanks
 
A foul is an infraction of the rules which is charged and is penalized.
ART. 1 . . . A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with
an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing
normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes contact
by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.
NOTE: Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or
flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.

Loudwhistle2 Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 802581)
But any other contact foul during a dead ball has to be a T - correct?

Trying to get this straight in my mind. Section 19 Foul Art 3 says " An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. "

So does this mean that an intentional foul during a dead ball is considered an intentional technical and yet an intentional foul (fouling the thrower on a throwin) is considered an intentional personal foul?

Confused?

tref Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:52am

Personals fouls invlolve live ball situations, cant be personal when the ball is dead.

JRutledge Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:53am

I have a 15 yards and an automatic first down. ;)

Peace

bob jenkins Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 (Post 802592)
Trying to get this straight in my mind. Section 19 Foul Art 3 says " An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. "

So does this mean that an intentional foul during a dead ball is considered an intentional technical and yet an intentional foul (fouling the thrower on a throwin) is considered an intentional personal foul?

Confused?

Correct. All fouls are either personal (generally, live ball contact) or technical (generally, dead ball contact, or non-contact).

Fouls may also have a "modifier" -- common (even though it's not specifically used for Ts), intentional, flagrant, PC, TC.

Fouls are also either single, double, multiple (avoid these!), false double, false multiple (the latter two are really just a sequence of single fouls).

No such thing as an "intentional flagrant foul."

mbyron Wed Dec 07, 2011 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 (Post 802592)
So does this mean that an intentional foul during a dead ball is considered an intentional technical and yet an intentional foul (fouling the thrower on a throwin) is considered an intentional personal foul?

Yes. The ball is live during a throw-in once it is at the disposal of the thrower.

Loudwhistle2 Wed Dec 07, 2011 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 802608)
Yes. The ball is live during a throw-in once it is at the disposal of the thrower.

Thanks Bob and Mbyron,
So player A1 blatantly shoves B1 during a dead ball, reff calls it an intentional technical foul (rough dead ball contact,can't be ignored) Any eligible player can shoot the free throws and ball at division line since it is categorized as a technical? I know about a regular live ball intentional--offended player only shoots and ball at POI.

bob jenkins Wed Dec 07, 2011 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 (Post 802623)
Any eligible player can shoot the free throws and ball at division line since it is categorized as a technical?

Same as any T -- any player(s) can shoot the FTs.

Camron Rust Wed Dec 07, 2011 02:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 802630)
Same as any T -- any player(s) can shoot the FTs.

Including substitutes that can become player(s) between the time of the T and the time the shots are taken.

tref Wed Dec 07, 2011 02:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 802645)
Including substitutes that can become player(s) between the time of the T and the time the shots are taken.

Also, the FTs may be shot by 2 different team members.

Freddy Wed Dec 07, 2011 03:02pm

Two, Two, Two Signals or One?
 
You've got a dead ball technical, contact, say, after a made basket when it can't be ignored. I understand this is actually an intentional technical, if I read the above correctly.

Do you:
A) give only the T signal, or
B) give the Intentional Foul signal and then the T signal, or
C) give the T signal and then the Intentional Foul signal?

Camron Rust Wed Dec 07, 2011 03:09pm

A.... T signal only.

bob jenkins Wed Dec 07, 2011 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 802658)
You've got a dead ball technical, contact, say, after a made basket when it can't be ignored. I understand this is actually an intentional technical, if I read the above correctly.

Do you:
A) give only the T signal, or
B) give the Intentional Foul signal and then the T signal, or
C) give the T signal and then the Intentional Foul signal?

In NCAA, the "Flagrant1" (nee Intentional) is for personal fouls only.

I'd just give the T signal

tjones1 Wed Dec 07, 2011 03:18pm

I'm just giving the T signal.


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