Simultaneous or false double foul
 

2-man crew:
A1 attempts a jumpshot from outside the key, left side, high. He is fouled on the shot by B1, called by T. While the ball is in the air, L, across the key, calls a foul on A2, for pushing B2. The shot is not successful.
One official says it's a simultaneous foul, and that the ball should be at the POI, A's ball, for a throw-in.
The partner says that it more fits a false double foul; A1 should shoot the two freethrows, with no rebounders along the key, and then it's B's ball for a throw-in, at the out-of-bounds spot nearest the foul on A2.
Your input, please.

False double

If the last FT is made, an unrestricted throw-in for team B. If the last FT is missed, spot throw-in out of bounds at spot closest to where the foul occurred.

APG, Thanks for your input. This is what I told the official that brought the scenario to me. I think I mentioned in another thread, a few weeks ago, that many of our officials come to me, and I come tho the Forum for further input.
Your responses are greatly appreciated.

Did they happen at the same time or one after the other? The answer to that question will determine whether it is simultaneous or false double.

Camron,
The officials got together and determined that the foul on the shooter was first, and then while the shot was in the air, the foul by A2 occurred. What was of most importance was the administration of the penalties.

Which means, that one occurred after the other....and not simultaneous.

No, it wasn't.

Unless you know whether they were simultaneous or one after the other, you CAN'T determine the administration of the penalties.

So what was of most importance was what type of foul it was. Determine that and then you know what the administration is.

Exactly. Knowing the definitions is the first step.

What I meant by "What was most important was the administration of the penalties." was in regards to the conversation with the official that came to me. You see, his partner wanted to not shoot the two merited free throws, and that seemed to be excessively punitive to team A.
I agree, that knowing the definitions of Simultaneous and False Double Fouls is primary in such a situation, and that by knowing that, and applying the correct definition, the procedure will then be correct.
Thanks, for your responses.

I would use the following as a guide for helping to determine SF vs FDF. Did the shooter get fouled prior to or after the release of the try? If before, then this sitch is likely an FDF, but if after then it is more likely to be SF. Also don't forget that if this is determined to be a FDF, then the bonus could required at the other end.

Thanks, Nevada. That will be very helpful in talking to the official that brought up the question to me.

Let's say these were simultaneous fouls.

Would we then have to determine whether the fouls were before or after the ball was released? (If before, POI goes to Team A; if after, POI goes to the arrow.)

Correct....and that is because a foul by the offensive team before the release makes the ball dead while still in team control. When the foul by the offensive team is after the release (and not by an airborne shooter), the ball remains live until the try ends....and becomes dead with neither team in control.

Simultaneous or False Double Foul
 

This is good situation, it actually happens more often that we really pay attention to



All Purpose Gamer and BktBallReg : good information

I don't know how often a simultaneous foul occurs...I'd say almost never.

False double fouls happen frequently enough...just a lot of people don't realize this.

Or can't be bothered to take 15 seconds to meet and figure it out. :cool:

Foul during 1st of 2 FTA
 

Didn't know if I should just start a new thread for this or not, so here goes, as it's somewhat related. Came up in locker room conversation among officials and there wasn't agreement. Can't find reference in rule or casebooks how to administer this:

A1 is shooting first of 2 FTA. B2 forgets it's not a 1-and-1 and boxes out so aggressively, she fouls A2 behind her. (Or A2 barrels in so hard, she fouls B2 while the ball is in the air.) Granted, most of the time, this jockeying amounts to nothing, but in this case, a foul has been committed. How to administer?

If A is not in the bonus: clear the lane, administer A1's other FT, give the ball to A at the OOB spot.

If A is in the bonus: clear the lane, administer A1's other FT, administer A2's FT's with players back in the lane.

The principle in NFHS is easy: administer fouls in the order of occurrence. If you're in the middle of administering one and another occurs, finish what you're doing and go on to the next one.

Kinda thought so. Then presuming if B is fouled, clear the lane for the 2nd A FTA and ball goes OOB to B (or to the other end to shoot 1-and-1 if warranted), right?

If not in the bonus, B would have a spot throw-in at the spot OOB closest to where the foul occurred if A's last free throw was unsuccessful. If the last one was successful, then B would have an unrestricted throw-in on the end line. If in the bonus, then after A's free throws, B would be awarded theirs.

Kind gentlemen you are. Thanks

Maybe....depends on whether the foul was before or after he FT was released. If before, it would be a team control foul and B would only get possession.

And yes, it is entirely possible to have fouls before the release yet not have a FT violation.