I'm talking about NCAA here. Is it legal for a player that is dribbling to run out of bounds, NOT TOUCH THE BALL WHILE OUT OF BOUNDS, and come back inbounds and continue dribbling?

I know this is illegal in the NBA, in fact the player that went out can't even be the first to touch the ball.

But I haven't seen anything in the NCAA rule book that addresses this issue. I think it is legal in the the NCAA so long as the ball never touches the player out of bounds and as long as the player re-establishes himself inbounds before continuing the dribble.

Thanks for helping out a stranger!

You honestly have no idea. . .
 

what you have just done!

This is an ongoing discussion topic, re-raised in various permutations every 3-6 months. The rule is that the ball is OOB the moment a dribbler steps on the line, regardless of whether or not the dribbler is actually touching the ball at the moment he steps on the line. However. . .

If a dribble is considered to be interrupted, which is a momentary loss of control by the dribbler, then this rule would not apply. That is, if the dribbler loses the ball, then steps out, then gets completely back in, then touches the ball again, there is no violation. There is no rule that says you cannot be last to touch before stepping out and first to touch after stepping out.

As you will see, we will now have 3-4 pages of debate on whether or not this can ever be an interrupted dribble, or under what circumstances we would or would not consider this to be an interrupted dribble. Stay tuned, it is always an entertaining topic.

IT is leagal in the FIBA rules.
and i also think that it should be leagal at NCAA and in the NBA.
WHY NOT?

If the dribbler is going out of bounds to avoid contact with a defender it would be a violation. If the dribbler looses control of the ball (interrupted dribble) then it would not be a violation.

sorry!
 

Sorry if I started a fuss!

Thanks for the replies. I was envisioning a scenario where the player loses control of the dribble before going out of bounds, so I guess it's legal.

I guess the reason that it is NOT legal in the NBA is so that the official doesn't have to make a judgement call as to whether or not the player INTENTIONALLY went out of bounds or intentially lost his dribble.

I think that the NBA starts with the assumption that players are at a much higher level so 1) they should be expected to control the ball and 2) they are so able to control the ball that they will have the quickness of mind and body to do things that HS and college players do not, and make it look accidental. So you can't be last to touch before going OOB and first to touch after. Another similar difference in rules is that any airball where the shooter rebounds his own miss is considered to be a self pass - in HS and college, the ref can decide if it is a try on goal and therefore not a travel.

With the NBA's interpretation of continuation, you can see that their approach to players and making plays kind of cuts both ways. They expect them to be able to make plays and penalize them when they can't (OOB and travel rules above), and they allow them great latitude to make plays when the defense is being penalized (continuation rule).

HC

Yep, that makes sense.

Does anyone know where in NBA rule book it is said that the last person to touch it cannot be the first person to touch it?

Regarding the NBA, this is where I got that:

http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/rule10.shtml

It says:

"b. A player in control of a dribble who steps on or outside a boundary line, even though not touching the ball while on or outside that boundary line, shall not be allowed to return inbounds and continue his dribble. He may not even be the first player to touch the ball after he has re-established a position inbounds.
c. A player may not dribble a second time after he has voluntarily ended his first dribble.
d. A player may dribble a second time if he lost control of the ball because of:
(1) A field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring
(2) An opponent touching the ball
(3) A pass or fumble which has then touched another player"

If you read these things together, however, it does appear that if the player loses his dribble, goes out of bounds, and comes back in bounds, he CAN touch the ball, however he can't continue the dribble unless it touches another player. At least, that's how I read it.

[Edited by bacterium on Apr 22nd, 2003 at 09:58 PM]

Really? Based on what rule?

WORMS!

WORMS!

WORMS EVERYWHERE!

Hawks Coach is right...you have no idea what you've started.

For NCAA, can the dribble be continued after returning inbounds? As bacterium has pointed out, it looks like the NBA only lets you retrieve the ball but it does not let you continue dribbling unless one of those 3 things happen. Or is bacterium wrong because the first dribble never ended?

And another play that we used to do in the school yards before was this sitch. A1 loses the dribble. A1 is guarded by B1 so she throws it at B1. A1 then picks up the ball and regains dribble. Is this legal? According to NCAA and NBA rule book, the ball can be dribbled a second time after an opponent touches it.

[Edited by jking_94577 on Apr 22nd, 2003 at 09:19 PM]

NF
What I mean is, that a player who is dribbling (Player control) can not go around a defender by going out of bounds to avoid contact with the defender. Even if the ball itself does not touch out of bounds, or the player in control is not touching the ball, as soon as the player in control steps out of bounds they have violated. That would be based on rule 7-1-1.

As far as the interrupted dribble, I would base that on rule 4-15-5 and 4-15-6d.

[Edited by Mike Burns on Apr 22nd, 2003 at 09:48 PM]

Not if the dribble is interrupted prior to going OOB.

If the dribble is "interrupted", there is no player control. I don't see that Mike's interpretation is in conflict with that. As long as the dribbler is "in control",
purposely leaves ball on the court to avoid a defender,then is the first to touch the ball after returning in-bounds to continue his dribble, it is illegal.

Please note that Mike and I are discussing NFHS, not NBA
 

That's true, which is the exact same thing I said above.

Quote:

As long as the dribbler is "in control", purposely leaves ball on the court to avoid a defender,then is the first to touch the ball after returning in-bounds to continue his dribble, it is illegal.

And that's not true. If the dribbler is "in control," it's a violation as soon as he steps OOB. Purposely leaving the court has absolutely nothing to do with whether a violation occurs or not. It's simply a matter of whether control exists when he touches OOB.

It is never a violation under NF rules to be the first player to touch the ball after being OOB. Such a violation does not exist.

For NCAA, can the dribble be continued after returning inbounds? As bacterium has pointed out, it looks like the NBA only lets you retrieve the ball but it does not let you continue dribbling unless one of those 3 things happen. Or is bacterium wrong because the first dribble never ended?

And another play that we used to do in the school yards before was this sitch. A1 loses the dribble. A1 is guarded by B1 so she throws it at B1. A1 then picks up the ball and regains dribble. Is this legal? According to NCAA and NBA rule book, the ball can be dribbled a second time after an opponent touches it.

NCAA -- yes, if it was an interrupted dribble and the player doesn't "catch" the ball (thus, ending the dribble). The normal dribbling rules apply -- the OOB situation has nothing to do with this.

Quote:

And another play that we used to do in the school yards before was this sitch. A1 loses the dribble. A1 is guarded by B1 so she throws it at B1. A1 then picks up the ball and regains dribble. Is this legal? According to NCAA and NBA rule book, the ball can be dribbled a second time after an opponent touches it.

So, the rule book says it can be done, and you're asking if it's legal? Of course it's legal.

I guess the reason I ask about the purposely throwing it off someone is that I am surprised that this does not happen more often in the NCAA or NBA. I used to have this guy who did this all the time. It was so hard to guard him. He would never lose his dribble.

It may work fine in the driveway but it's not as likely to be as successful when you're playing D1 or NBA ball.

One of the best plays of this type I saw was done by Shaunte Rogers for GW. Rogers was a 5'4" guard, and he got caught with his dribble picked up about 20-25 feet from the basket on the wing. He attempted a turnaround jumper in the face of his much larger opponent, then turned and immediately blocked out, keeping his opponent pinned on the basket side. He correctly anticipated that it would be an easy block, tossed it right up into his opponent to get it blocked, then recovered the ball when it bounded away from the basket into the area he sealed off. CREATIVE!

As for why it doesn't happen much more, there are two reasons. 1) you can't very well control what happens when you bounce it off your opponent and 2) opponents at the highest level have quick hands and can take the ball from you (yhour playground opponents just can't make the same plays!).

Remember when Iverson did the "butt-ball" inbounds on the sideline this year (Iverson catches an opponent with his back turned on an inbounds, tosses it off his backside, jumps in, grabs ball and goes for lay-up). A couple of games later, Jordan turns his back on an inbounds play and entices an opponent into attempting the same move under the basket, then whirls and grabs the ball for an easy steal. The pros become a little too slick for the playground stuff sometimes :)

I saw something like this at a summer camp. PG dribbled into the trees in the lane, went up for the shot, realized he made a mistake & tossed the ball off the big guy's chest. He caught the ball before he hit the ground & dribbled back out. Very impressive!

Agreed

Lets stir the pot a little more...
 

I believe the key question here is PC.

I might not be understanding what you mean by the player "puposely leaving the ball on the court". Are we saying that this is, or is not, part of his dribble?

If the dribbler (A1) loses control of the ball by dribbling it off of his foot, and the ball rolls between the defender's legs, then A1 steps OB and comes back in to retrieve the ball, I believe it would be legal because the dribble was interrupted prior to the player stepping OB.

However,If the dribbler bounces the ball between the defenders legs while running OB to avoid contact with the defender, and then comes back in bounds and continues his dribble, then I think that would be part of the dribble (illegal).

Many people think that for an interrupted dribble to occur, the ball has to bounce off the defender or dribbler or be knocked away from by the defender. That's not the case. Anytime the dribbler momentarily loses control of the ball, an interrupted dribble occurs.

The first key is control. But the second key is that if a violation occurs, it occurs as soon as the player steps OOB. So, if you make the call when he comes back in and touches the ball again, you've made it clear to everyone that you've blown the call.

Ok.
I'm dribbling the ball. I momentarily lose control of the ball, i then stumble out of bounds WITHOUT TOUCHING THE BALL. The ball is bouncing around on the court.
So what you're saying is that once I step out of bounds, even if I haven't touched the ball while out of bounds, you would kill the play, and call a violation on me?
Yes, it's a violation for the dribbler to step out of bounds, but you can't call a violation until he comes back in and is the first to touch the ball.

No, Drake, that's not what we're saying. You've described an interrupted dribble -- there's no player control, so no violation for being out of bounds.

Quote:

Yes, it's a violation for the dribbler to step out of bounds, but you can't call a violation until he comes back in and is the first to touch the ball.

Again, not true in HS or NCAA. A dribbler has control of the ball. IT's a violation as soon as the dribble touches OOB.

You gotta love Bob. He watches me beat my head against the wall, post after post after post, trying to convince someone of something. Then, when he thinks my head is about to explode, he pops in and backs me up! Thanks Bob!! :D

As for this paly, I'll say it again.

It is not a violation under NF rules to be the first player to touch the ball after being OOB. Such a violation does not exist.

Drake - please say you were kidding
 

Where do I start? First, what you describe is a momentary loss of control, therefore an interrupted dribble, and therefore no violation. So no, the whistle doesn't blow, not when you step out, and not when you step back in and retrieve the ball.

Second, as others have stated, the violation occurs when the foot hits the line, not when you step back in, if you retain control and are a dribbler at the moment you step on the line.

The classic version of this violation is you push the ball to the floor, your right foot touches the sideline, you step to your left foot which is inbounds, and the ball comes back to your hands. the violation occurred at the spot where you stepped out, not where the ball touched your hand. The violation was you stepping on the line while you were dribbling, not you touching the ball after stepping on the line.

You know how sometimes you write or say something, then you walk away and think, "Huh?" :confused: :D

Anyway,
I realized I was describing an interupted dribble AFTER the fact.

Thanks for pointing out my lack of brain power for a moment.:D