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Pass hitting player and going through basket
Hello,
I was thinking of a few different scenarios and needed some opinions on the correct ruling. 1. Team A has the ball for a throw-in at the division line. (a) A1 throws the ball in and it hits off of A1 who is behind the 3pt. line and goes through the basket. (b) A1 throws the ball in and it his off of B1 who is behind the 3pt line and the ball goes in. Do we have a 3pt goal in both cases? What if time expires after it hits off of A1 or B1 but before it goes through the basket? Does any of this change if this is a pass from A1 who is dribbling the ball in-bounds at the division line? What would be the ruling if A1 attempts a 3-point shot, but the shot is short and B1 accidently tips the ball in (after the try or tap for goal is judged to be unsuccessful, so we would not have any Basket Interference or Goal Tending)? Would it be a 2pt or 3pt goal? I believe it should be a 3pt. goal. Thanks! |
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Peace |
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(b) 3 points since B1 touched the ball beyond the arc. Quote:
Only when a player who has attempted a try for goal does the attempt extend to beyond the buzzer, and it extends until the try is good or until the try is clearly unsuccessful. Quote:
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5.2.1 SITUATION C answers all of your questions concerning the location of the last player to touch the ball.
You might also review 4-41, which defines a try. To answer your question about end-of-period scoring, you need to know whether your cases involve a try. Hope that helps! |
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In no possible way could a throwin be a 3-point try so B1 touching it only makes it legal for it to enter the basket...it doesn't make it a 3. In part (a), I suppose you might get a 3 out of that but not because it was a thrown ball....it was a throwin. It couldn't have been 3 to start with. Only if you judge that A1 was tapping the ball for a 3 would it be 3, not just tipped/touched. This rule, for a ball thrown from outside the 3-point arc that enters the basket was only intended to remove the necessary judgment of whether it was a try or not when there was a question of whether it was a try or not. A throwin was never in doubt. For that matter, the position of the throwin is neither inside of nor outside of the 3-point arc....It is OOB. |
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See... 4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1) |
Kind of like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=XM4XmCiuX64 |
3 points? Don't shoot!
Apparently if you attempt a 3-point try, miss, and it bounces into the basket off B's head, you get 2 points. 4.41.4C
If you throw a pass to a teammate from behind the arc, miss, and it bounces into the basket off B's head, you get 3 points. 5.2.1C(b) Weird. |
Why is this weird. One you are clearly throwing at the basket and it happens to go in the basket. The other it is clear you were not even trying to score and the ball happens to go in the basket. The rule is in place because players would try and Ally-Opp on some level and the ball would go in the basket inadvertently. They wanted to take this out of the hands of the officials to determine the intent of the passer/shooter.
Peace |
There is no 4.41.4c
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Note that it is under a section titled "THREE-POINT TRY" It is making the point that if A or B tips the shot (just out of the shooters hand), it will still be 3 whether B is in the 3-point area or in the 2-point area (usually feet on the line) but if it touches A in the 2-point area, it becomes a 2. It never was intended for the situation you pose...where the try or virtual try is ALWAYS over when the ball passes below the level of the ring or ever passes above the ring. Only 4.41.4C is relevant at that point....a ball that bounces off a player's head/shoulder is a 2 and it is not a try. |
So if A1 is inbounding and their inbounds pass hits off of A2 or B2 who are standing outside the 3pt. line, would it be a 2pt or 3pt?
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"A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points." Moreover, the wording of Situation C is distinctive: "A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line." That's different from Situation A ("A1 attempts a three-point goal.") and is more like Situation B Ruling ("A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an actual try for goal."). It's clear that Situations B and C concern thrown balls that are NOT tries, and my original puzzle remains. |
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If the "throw" is back down below the rim, or is not toward the basket, then award two points. |
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I would agree with that, Bob. Otherwise, if Team A is on a fastbreak and A1 from just behind the arc whips a cross-cross court chest pass that is deflected and goes in A's basket, some might be inclined to award 3 points. |
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Plus, is OOB really behind the 3-point arc? I say no...the 3-point area is ONLY inbounds. Name any other time a player can score 3-points while throwin the ball from OOB? |
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Pass from behind the arc bounces off B's shoulder and goes in: 3 points, even though it was not a try. |
Missing Question Mark ???
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Remember, they removed the need to decide try/pass so no matter what you thought it was, it comes out the same. That means 4.41.4 SIT B applies whether it was a throw or a try. The case that you're relying on to rule it a 3 just don't apply to a thrown ball that might have been a try that has fallen short and is not going in. It is ONLY meant to apply a ball that, as thrown, might have been a shot and goes in...and that a tip by a defender at the point of release doesn't change that. If the defender touches it much closer to the basket, we'd have goaltending....but that can't happen once the shot falls below the rim. So the try (or virtual try) is over. It is just a lose ball that goes in. Don't take that case so literally and apply it to situations it was never intended to be used for. |
So, would 2 points be awarded in this scenario:
A1 shoots the ball from behind the 3 point line. Ball has been released by the shooter and time expires as the ball is in the air. Shot falls short of the basket, bounces off of B1 (head, shoulder, arms - doesn't matter) and goes through the basket. 2 points awarded because the try for goal ended once the ball was below the rim? It is still a live ball, correct? Same scenario, but instead of hitting B1, it bounces off the floor and into the basket. No points since time expired, correct? |
No that it wouldn't count in your first situation because time expired and the ball became dead as soon as it was apparent the try will not be successful. The ball bouncing off of B1 is immaterial. If the ball had hit off B1 and entered the basket before time expired, then it would count as two points.
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