too many quarters in one night
 

After the 3rd quarter A6 tried to sub in for A5 before the 4th quarter started but he reported after the 15 second warning buzzer. The officials wouldn't let him enter the game of course. Then team A explained to the refs that A5 must exit the game because he has already played his 5 quarters that are allowed in one night. The refs decided that they can't overlook this infraction and required A5 to start the 4th quarter. The refs surely knew that at another date that this game would be declared a forfeit. Was the right decision made or should the refs overlooked this minor infraction so that A5 would not have gone over the quarter limit and cause a forfeit?

As a general statement, officials are not responsible for this type of "eligibility" issue. So, I think they did the right thing.

In SOME areas, this type of issue might supercede the substitution issue. Someone from southern IN (or tell us where, if it didn't happen there) might be able to help.

I dont think we should get involved with player eligibility/restrictions...

It did happen in southern Indiana

When in Doubt, Call the AD Out
 

An interested and likely available individual might be the athletic director. They're always up on those things, and he/she would be a good one to pawn this one off on.
(last sentence ending with a preposition--something up with which the grammatical intellectuals of this forum rarely put)

I agree that eligibility rules are not in our jurisdiction. In southern IN, conferences sometimes have more stringent rules than the IHSAA. So it is very difficult to know all of the restrictions.

According to the IHSAA; a student "plays" a quarter when the student enters a game and time is run off the clock.

So I guess coach could have called a TO and subbed the player out before any time ran off the clock.

The officials enforced the rules as they know them. Surely the coach knew his player had used up his eligibility and should have been more diligent in his oversight of the situation.

Of course, a simple solution would have been for the coach to request a time-out and then sub A5 out of the game.

So, what if A5, who is on the bench, is subbed in to shoot free throws for a Technical foul and then is replaced by A6? Even though the clock has not started. The ball becomes live twice and A5 has a chance to score 2 points.
Also in Missouri, a player can play in 6 quarters. As an official, we are not suppose to counts quarters. This is an Administrative issue.

The OhioHSAA has a five quarter per day rule (with a maximum of ninety quarters for the regular season).

As an example, two schools are playing a FR/JV/VAR tripleheader. An player can player a total of five quarters for the three games: one quarter in the FR game, three quarters in the JV game and one quarter in the VAR game. The Scorekeepr must keep track of the number of quarters each player plays in each game. If a player is found to be playing in his sixth quarter for the night, he is disqualified (his disqualification is treated in the same way as if a player had fouled out of the game) from playing for the rest of the day, and his sixth quarter counts toward his ninety maximum for the regular season.

If the situation being discussed happened in Ohio, it would be treated in the same manner if the officials had been told by the Scorekeeper that he just discovered that A5 had five fouls and is disqualified. Replace A5 and move on.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. In my opinion, the officials were being hard a$$e$ about that matter, meaning Team A could have requested a Team TO in order to replace A5.

Then A5 has played in the 4th quarter. What happens to him after that is not our concern.

All I know is that those are the exact words as written in the IHSAA Articles of Incorporation.

Usually these type of equal participation rules exist in youth games - for example, 10 or 11 and under.

Why not just do what we do here in Ontario - have players report to the scorekeeper at the beginning of each quarter. If a player report that is ineligible, then the mistake is caught and corrected before they step on the court. Once this process is complete, then sound the 15s horn.

Problem solved.

Not that big a deal to me
 

Maybe, like a discussion topic a few weeks back, this player is no longer available, as in he may be injured, or has fouled out. You can't force him to play, you can't let the team begin the next quarter with only four players (if others are available) I say you let the next guy in even if he was late to the table. No sense making a problem for others to clean up later or even hurting the kid down the road. If in this particular state this practice is recognized, (I'm assuming the extra quarters are coming from JV action seen) then a little leniency is in order here and I sure hope the opposing coach isn't going to put up much objection.

I say the coach needs to take a time-out to make the substitution legal and in the future do HIS job better instead of putting the onus on the officials to clean up his mistake.

I think the actual criteria for playing should be that the ball became live, not that the clock ran....of course, should be and is are not always the same.

This issue is certainly not worth of a forfeit....even if it is one to be declared later. I'm going to work with the coach to try to find a way to avoid that. Even the other coach, in most cases, does't want a win that way.

I may offer him some options to resolve the situation....such as a timeout. Coach, "Did you just say you wanted a timeout?" ;) ;)

That player just might have his jersey untucked.....for that matter, the player could pull it out so he will be sent out.

Washington State interpretation
 

This is from the WIAA Handbook:

52.5.0 PLAYER LIMITATION – Each player may play in twenty (20) contests, but in doing so may not exceed eighty (80) quarters. Any appearance in a quarter, regardless of the length of time played, shall be
considered as one (1) quarter. This is interpreted as meaning when a player is beckoned onto the floor and the ball becomes alive, that the player has played in one (1) quarter.
52.5.1 Players from all classifications of schools except 1B schools may appear in a maximum of four (4) quarters in one (1) day.
52.5.2 Players in 1B schools may appear in a maximum of five (5) quarters in one (1) day.
52.5.3 Players from all classifications of schools except 1B schools may participate in a maximum of 20 games during the regular season.
52.5.4 Players in 1B schools may participate in a maximum of 80 quarters during the regular season.
52.5.5 If an eighth grader has participated in a middle level or junior high team, that player may participate in a maximum of forty quarters.
52.6.0 COUNTING QUARTERS AND CONTESTS:
52.6.1 Four (4) quarters played against the same squad is one (1) contest.
52.6.2 Four (4) quarters played against the same school, same day, different squads (i.e., varsity and junior varsity squads) is one (1) contest.
52.6.3 Four (4) quarters played against the same school, different days during the same week, different squads (i.e., varsity on Tuesday, junior varsity on Thursday) is one (1) contest. If a player exceeds four (4) quarters, that player is considered to have participated in two (2) contests (one (1) contest on each day).
52.6.4 A total of four (4) quarters played against two (2) different schools, same day, different squads is one (1) contest.
52.6.5 One (1) or more quarters played against two (2) different schools, different days during the same week, different squads would be two (2) contests.
52.6.6 Postseason games do not count against the game or quarterly season limitation.
52.6.7 FIFTH QUARTER - A fifth quarter may be played only by freshmen basketball squads following the regular contest. The 5th quarter is for players who were not starters and who played in three (3) quarters or less of the regular contest.

:) "A5, are you having a cramp? Sure looks like you are cramping up! TRAINER!" Problem solved!

Coach, the only way I can allow a sub now is for an injury or if you request a timeout.

Why do we care about the Washington eligibility rules?

I agree, Mark. You forgot to mention that if a player does participate in more the 5 quarters the team is assessed a technical foul which makes a lot more sense in my opinion than a forfeit.

Perhaps other states use similar rules.

The only relevant rule here is Indiana's.

More likely that they're completely different and even if they're somewhat similar, their specific language is what matters...and it is probably enough different to not be useful.

You are correct BillyU2. I forgot about the TF. But my guess is that you are a youngin', ;), and weren't even born back in the day when the OhioHSAA rules were one gane per day and four quarters per day equaled one game so a play could play one quarter in the FR game, two quarters in the JV game and one quarter in the VAR game for example, AND a player could not participate in more than twenty regular season games. If a player participated in a fifth quarter he was charged with a Flagrant TF (game report to Columbus), the OhioHSAA considered that as playing in two games in one day, and he was ineligible for post-season competition.

MTD, Sr.

Wow, Mark! You really do go back aways. I don't remember any of that stuff at all. I have gotten a lot younger though (16 years old now) since I converted to centigrade. :cool:
I'll be getting my drivers license soon so my wife won't have to drive me to all my games.

BillyU2:

ROFLMAO

And now for a second history lesson.

If one reads the NFHS Basketball Rules, one sees that the Coaching Box is actually by StateHSAA adoption. In reality, NFHS Rules are really a "Seat Belt Rule" for lack of a better description.

The NBCUSC adopted the "seat belt rule" for the 1970-71 (remember, back then the NBCUSC wrote the rules for both boys'/girls' and men's college; the same set of rules for all three levels except for length of periods) season, there was no provision for a Coaching Box. That meant, everybody had to keep their tushes glued to the bench; for all intents and purposes the rule was ignored at the college level.

When the NBCUSC adpopted the "Seat Belt Rule" the OhioHSAA adopted provisions that made the rule even stricter than the NBCUS adoption; I won't go into detail because the definition of Live and Dead Ball were different than they are now.

That said, the OhioHSAA also added paper work to the rule, any time a Head Coach (JrHS, FR, JV, or VAR) received a TF violation of the "Seat Belt Rule" the calling official had to complete and file an OhioHSAA Coach's Bench Rule Report Form with the OhioHSAA and the Head Coach's school.

Ah, those were the days. :rolleyes:

MTD, Sr.