Its All About Me?

JRutledge · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 04:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

It has everything to do with not taking criticism. I pointed out that their rules knowledge was lacking in this area (criticism), even showing them in the book and they blew me off repeatedly. It wasn't a "oh, I disagree, I think the rule is X." It was "You're the new guy, shut up because you don't know what you're talking about."

You seem to be on some personal stuff. That was not the point of previous comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

A good official who can take criticism would have said, "Hey, you know you're right. I didn't realize that, thanks for pointing it out," just as a good rookie would do when corrected by a veteran.

Funny, I do not think I have ever seen that conversation between officials. OK, if that is what you think.

Peace

fiasco · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 04:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You seem to be on some personal stuff. That was not the point of previous comments.

Um, actually it was the point of the whole thread. The OP asked if anyone has ever experienced veteran officials who think "it's all about me." I have, and I related such an experience.

Quote:

Funny, I do not think I have ever seen that conversation between officials. OK, if that is what you think.

Peace

You've never been involved or overheard a conversation where an official said "I didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out?"

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 04:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

Um, actually it was the point of the whole thread. The OP asked if anyone has ever experienced veteran officials who think "it's all about me." I have, and I related such an experience.

That is not what you were responding to. You said that there was an equal number of veterans that were afraid to take criticism and it goes both ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

You've never been involved or overheard a conversation where an official said "I didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out?"

You did not just say it was a conversation where someone said they were right, you said a rookie told the veteran he was wrong and the veteran just said what you wanted them to. Usually those disagreements are with veterans who know each other and have some interaction with each other. That is the point.

Peace

fiasco · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 05:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is not what you were responding to. You said that there was an equal number of veterans that were afraid to take criticism and it goes both ways.

Actually I didn't say that. I just said there are a lot of veterans who can't take criticism. I said nothing about it being equal in numbers.

Either way, I still fail to see how that is off-topic.

And, even if you do feel it's off-topic, welcome to the world of internet message boards.

Quote:

You did not just say it was a conversation where someone said they were right, you said a rookie told the veteran he was wrong and the veteran just said what you wanted them to. Usually those disagreements are with veterans who know each other and have some interaction with each other. That is the point.

That's a lot of pronouns. Regardless, I still don't get your point.

zm1283 · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 07:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

Um, actually it was the point of the whole thread. The OP asked if anyone has ever experienced veteran officials who think "it's all about me." I have, and I related such an experience.

You've never been involved or overheard a conversation where an official said "I didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out?"

I'm with you here. Unfortunately, JRut likes to hear himself talk (Or type) and will engage anyone in a conversation simply to draw it out for as long as possible, so by the end both sides have forgotten what they're arguing about. He's a legend in his own mind, just ask him. (Remember, he will only trust maybe four officials out of 6,000 for advice)

Yes, there are a lot of veteran officials who think it is all about them. I had a situation last year where I (As a fourth-year official) was working with a veteran (15+ years) and he blew about three rules interps in a row in the same game. He even refused to budge when I told him he was wrong and one of the coaches called him out on it. His opinion was the only thing that mattered though (Wouldn't even get together with me to discuss it).

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 08:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

(Remember, he will only trust maybe four officials out of 6,000 for advice)

Spoken like a true rookie. If you knew any better you would know that you should only pay attention to one or two mentors and just nod your head with the rest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

Yes, there are a lot of veteran officials who think it is all about them. I had a situation last year where I (As a fourth-year official)

Tell me everything I needed to know. Thanks for making that clear to me.

Peace

fiasco · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 08:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Spoken like a true rookie. If you knew any better you would know that you should only pay attention to one or two mentors and just nod your head with the rest.

*nodding my head*

jdw3018 · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 08:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

*nodding my head*

I'll admit it. This made me laugh out loud.

zm1283 · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2011, 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Spoken like a true rookie. If you knew any better you would know that you should only pay attention to one or two mentors and just nod your head with the rest.

I didn't say mentors. My point was that you are so arrogant you think only 4 guys know enough to ever give you advice. I'm pretty sure there are more than 4 out of 6,000 that are qualified to give you advice. Whether you would want to listen to them or not is a different story.

Quote:

Tell me everything I needed to know. Thanks for making that clear to me.

Peace

How is that? At what point is someone not a rookie anymore? This is my fifth year and I work a full varsity schedule and have worked postseason games already. Am I still a rookie? Is anyone with less experience than you a rookie?

We know you're god's gift to officiating, you've made that perfectly clear a number of times on here. Unfortunately you give a bad name to the veteran officials who are approachable and try to help whenever asked. Fortunately they do outnumber the ones like you, but one wouldn't know that from reading your diatribes on this board.

Raymond · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2011, 09:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

...We know you're god's gift to officiating, you've made that perfectly clear a number of times on here. Unfortunately you give a bad name to the veteran officials who are approachable and try to help whenever asked. Fortunately they do outnumber the ones like you, but one wouldn't know that from reading your diatribes on this board.

JRut regularly works state clinics as an observer so I don't know how you can come to the conclussion that isn't approachable nor helpful with younger officials.

You can be God's gift to officiating and a mentor. The 2 are now mutually exclusive.

zm1283 · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2011, 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

JRut regularly works state clinics as an observer so I don't know how you can come to the conclussion that isn't approachable nor helpful with younger officials.

You can be God's gift to officiating and a mentor. The 2 are now mutually exclusive.

I wasn't really trying to say that he isn't helpful if asked...although it does come off that way at times.

From reading his posts, he insinuated that most veterans don't want to be helpful because younger officials won't listen, which isn't always true. Like I said above, a lot of the ones who don't want to help younger guys are like that because they're afraid they'll be a threat in the near future.

As far as arguments over rules go, there are 2nd year guys and 15th year guys who don't know the rules. It is just more frustrating when a 15th year guy refuses to even discuss the possibility that he may be wrong (When he is definitely wrong) because he's too proud. The 2nd year guy most of the time is just ignorant because of a lack of experience.

zm1283 · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2011, 09:46am

And for the record, there are older officials who will help you as much as you want and will do everything they can to help you succeed, and there are also older officials who will do absolutely nothing because they see you as a threat. It goes both ways.

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2011, 10:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't say mentors. My point was that you are so arrogant you think only 4 guys know enough to ever give you advice. I'm pretty sure there are more than 4 out of 6,000 that are qualified to give you advice. Whether you would want to listen to them or not is a different story.

You have only been doing this for about 4 years right? I have been doing this for going into my 16th year and having lived in two totally different places in my state. I have had mentors that I listen to the most. If I listened to everyone that gave me advice over the years, I would not be where I am today as an official and in some board positions that I currently hold. I would not have worked the levels, post season or tournaments as many would claim I could not do that or that they would not share that information. You probably do not even realize the very thing you are disagreeing with you seem to make a claim of veterans.

I will work one of the biggest assignments of my life in a couple of weeks with two people that if they did not give me a shot or help me, I would not be where I am today not only as an official in this sport, but another sport because they encouraged me. And I get to work with two of them in this assignment, but you do not understand why I said out of all those officials I would only listen to 4 people? LOL!!!! Keep living and you will one day see what I am talking about. None of us accomplish anything in this without a very select few helping us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

How is that? At what point is someone not a rookie anymore? This is my fifth year and I work a full varsity schedule and have worked postseason games already. Am I still a rookie? Is anyone with less experience than you a rookie?

Rookie has little to do with years of experience, but a mindset. You could be have 10 years of officiating experience and still be a rookie in your mentality. And if you think a disagreement with another official over a rule is the same as not helping a younger official, then that is all I need to say about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

We know you're god's gift to officiating, you've made that perfectly clear a number of times on here. Unfortunately you give a bad name to the veteran officials who are approachable and try to help whenever asked. Fortunately they do outnumber the ones like you, but one wouldn't know that from reading your diatribes on this board.

Not God's gift, but certainly more knowledgeable then you appear to be at this of our careers in officiating. When you deal with as much people that I did just this week alone then talk to me. Tonight I would have been involved in training younger and veterans with over 100 officials, first on Monday were over 60 attended my basketball class that I am the founder of and the other is an organization where I am President.

Basketball Training Class | Inter-Athletic Council of Officials Just Monday

Peace