When did you try to move up, JV and Varsity?
 

Hey everyone, new to the forum. Really enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and opinions.
Just got my certification last year in basketball. Question is when you were starting out when did you feel comfortable trying to offiiciate J.V. games. Or did you try to stay with JH games for a while.
Last year I was able to do multiple JH games and a good bit of youth travel leagues. I'm trying to get as much experience as possible before trying to move to Varsity in a couple of years. Thanks for the feedback.

I worked JV games off the bat. Actually a JV game was my first HS game ever. I did work some elementary school games basketball first, but that was only because the high school basketball season did not start yet.

Honestly I do not understand why people feel that they are going to learn any more at the JH level before they work a HS game? You will likely have the same amount of people in the gym and sometimes less in HS (and that does depend on what you call JV and when it is played) and the same ignorant coaches and fans the major difference is they are just watching older kids play. Actually the older the kids the more composed they are and the more body control they have. It is easier to call fouls and easier to identify movements. JH, they might not even know what they are doing and you had to decide how technical you want to be. Work as many games as you can to get experience. I do not think it is good to limit yourself to only one level.

Also getting to the varsity level ultimately will not be your choice. Someone will make that choice for you by either giving you a game or deciding you are ready, which is why you should work whatever you can and gain experience. You do not want to get to the varsity too soon without being ready first.

Peace

RS - first and foremost, welcome to the Forum!

I'm going into my seventh season, and this will be my third with a full, Varsity schedule. Normal? I don't know, but it was about right for me.

I was brought along very slowly and deliberately. I was made to learn the rules. I think I was trained and mentored well and given games at different levels where I saw many plays and situations over and over again so I could learn to react properly and call them right at the higher levels.

Going from two to three-person mechanics took some work, but, the most difficult adjustment for me at Varsity initially, was the speed of the game and size of the players. At the younger levels the "above the rim" play doesn't enter into the equation - and you must be ready. After a few years now though, the game has slowed down appreciably and I am more accustomed to it.

As JRut said, the game at the Varsity level can also be a bit easier in some aspects as the players are more disciplined. Some players get an understanding and feel for the game and "almost get it." There can be less hand-checking and stupid fouls, less jump balls and traveling, better D, more disciplined offenses that allow the game to flow, etc.

If you have a good Association, they'll help you move along at the pace that's right for you. If you have a question about the speed in which you're moving up, ask! Someone might be honest with you - right or wrong, so be ready. Find a mentor if you can.

Good luck!

My very first game was a large school BJV game. Players from that JV team went on to win 2 state championships with 4-5 playing D1 basketball. So I went directly into the fire.

First, welcome to the Forum.

Second, learn to crawl before you can walk, learn to walk before you can jog, and then learn to jog before you can run.

What does that mean, do not rush things. The worst thing that can happen to you is for you to officiate a game at a level for which you are not yet ready to officiate.

Try to officiate as much as possible no matter what the level (JrHS, FR, JV, CYO, men's "wreck" league, etc.) of game. Rut is correct about older (FR and JV) are more composed but the lower level games can give you great experience in the unexpected.

Everybody developes at their own pace. So just relax and enjoy the walk on the wild side and don't forget to stop and smell the flowers from time to time.

MTD, Sr.

Not in this part of the state lol. Then again our district is fairly loosely controlled compared to others.

The lower level games can keep you well on your toes because everything in the rule book and the case book is entirely possible except for maybe for dunking(then again I have seen an 8th grader dunk before),goaltending and BI. You will also find out how thick your skin is and start learning conflict resolution skills because you are usually dealing with the least experienced coaches,kids and fans.

I think you missed the point. The main issue is that working JH is not all of a sudden a training ground to work HS ball at any level. In many cases you might not even be exposed to certain HS rules like BI or GT that you might see at the HS level. For the record I have never seen a JH player consistently be above the rim. I have seen a kid dunk, but not very well or be able to go get balls on or above the rim, nor would I expect to when kids that age are not as under control. The bottom line is work it all and learn from each level until you gain the experience to make that jump.

Peace

I'm entering my third season...haven't yet cracked the varsity ranks. I've got several JV games on my schedule. Those games are a good challenge for me (mainly because in my area, the JV is comprised of the kids who don't play much on the varsity level, and we're using two officials instead of three).

My advice would be, work on perfecting your mechanics, no matter what level of basketball it is. One thing I constantly hear about moving up is that your mechanics will make you stand out. Not just with your switches and things like that, but your signaling too. Make everything crisp.

As others have said, find someone to "latch on to" so to speak. Ask to attend varsity pregames/halftimes, and ask questions at the appropriate moments.

I worked 4 years of predominantly JV/Freshman games before moving to a Varsity schedule. JH/MS may help some with the rules, but you may end up with partners who have no interest in moving up, so that can have a negative effect on your progress. You do not make the decision to move up to varsity, assignors do. Part of their decision making is based on feedback from known varsity officials who have seen you work. And most of that feedback will be based on varsity guys seeing you work JV games.

This is my fifth year of a full schedule of school ball. Before that, I had two years of rec league/church ball. This will be the first year I get some varsity games, more than likely not a full schedule of varsity, though.

The reason I started out doing a few years of rec league/church ball is because I was really only blowing the whistle on the weekends. That's back when I lived in the DC area, and it was virtually impossible for me to get out of the city and to a game site in time for tipoff.

I really agree with 26 Year Gap's statement that you might get to work on some of your rules knowledge in JH/MS, but the meat of officiating (managing a game, working with partners, coaches, interaction, weird situations, etc) really happens at the JV level because you start to get better partners who take things more seriously and aren't just there to break a little bit of a sweat and collect a paycheck.

My biggest piece of advice would be to latch onto a veteran in your association and ask him/her to be your mentor. Go to some of his games, hang out in the locker room after and listen to the banter between officials. Go out with them after the game and listen to their war stories. Do this a few times per season, and not only will you learn a lot, you'll get well connected with the other varsity refs, who will feel comfortable recommending you when the commissioner comes calling asking if you are ready for the next level.

My thoughts
 

I am in a similar situation to you. I too past my certification last year. I actually felt comfortable enough to do some varsity games my first year. Luckily, I had some camps the summer before getting certified and someone turned back some games and I got my shot late notice for some pretty good varsity. I had my first top 10 in the state game last year and it was a two man game. I was sweating a lot during that game :D

What I would say is don't take anything you don't feel comfortable with, but being that you are certified, give the JV level a shot. You will find that you are probably more ready than you imagine.

About the only thing I'm not really comfortable on and I hope to get more work in this year, is addressing coaches. Last year, I did a lot of nodding, not many words came out though.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your season.

The only correct answer to this question is it depends. When it is your time to move up, you will move up. Until then, just work hard.

I started with college JV games, hs jv games, and all the lower level games.
My first HS varsity game was in year two.
My first college varsity action was much later in year 8.
My combined schedule now is 95% HS varsity.
I do some jv games in conjunction with a varsity game at small schools

This is true, you cant press a button and work at 7:30.

I worked JV my first 4 years. Halfway through that 4th year, I started getting moved up on games here and there. Year 5, I was all V.

I have worked with guys that went 8 - 10 years at JV

It's different for everyone.

- Are you out working your peers? (as in going to camp?)

I started officiating with a group that had very few schools to schedule. Then I moved, twice. I was in my 7th year when I moved to Tennessee for graduate school, although officiating was really a part time gig for me up to that point -- maybe 1-2 games a week at the most.

Once I got to Tennessee, I took everything I could and tried being as coachable as possible. Middle of my second year there, aided by some horrible weather, I started filling in at the V level. I've never looked back. That was 17 years and 3 states ago.

I know people with over 10-15 years experience who still work only FR/JV games and always will. They aren't motivated to move up, the games are earlier, and they can work close to home and make only $20 less than the V officials. (Around here FR/JV are hired by the schools directly, and they're happy for any body they can get.)

You have to control what you can control. Eventually, someone will notice you.

I heard a presentation that it takes about 300 games at a level in order to be ready for the next level. Now I do not know if that is true and it was also said that some will probably move faster and some will take longer. But this number is a gauge to show how ready you could be if you work enough.

Peace

How Do You Get To Carnegie Hall ???
 

There are so many folks who say that athletes are madeup of a certain genetic predisposition, or that Mozart was a unique diamond in the rough. But is that true? According to Malcom Gladwell, mastery of anything, whether it's the Beatles in music, or Bill Gates in the computer world, takes 10,000 hours of practice. The only requirement for the individual is to find the money to create time for practice, have a strong desire to commit to the work, and practice, practice, practice until they achieve success.

That is just not true.

The person must first have the necessary physical and mental tools. Without them, no amount of practice will make a person good at something they just can't understand or physically do.

I could practice for 100,000 hours and, no matter how hard I try, I really doubt I could ever sing like Celine Dion (not that I'd want to) but I might be able to sound like Bob Dylan.

Some people, no matter how hard they try, are just not going to understand quantum physics, brain surgery, semiconductor physics, etc.

Someone who is female is probably not going to make and NBA team, no matter how long they practice...they're just not going to match up with Dwight Howard, Rondo, or anyone in between...nor is a guy who is 5'2" (with a very rare exception which will probably never happen again).

Outliers: The Story of Success ...
 

Tell it to Malcom Gladwell.

In Outliers: The Story of Success, Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. To support his thesis, he examines the causes of why the majority of Canadian ice hockey players are born in the first few months of the calendar year, how Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates achieved his extreme wealth, and how two people with exceptional intelligence, Christopher Langan and J. Robert Oppenheimer, end up with such vastly different fortunes. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours.

I feel I am the epitome of that statement.

I began officiating at the age of 18 while in college for beer money. I worked intramural basketball for two years, and I was then told to get licensed by the IHSA. I worked for two years on the JV circuit (I think I've worked 5-10 youth/JV games total), and I was then told to go to a NCAA-W camp by a varsity official who saw me work a BJV game. In my third season (fifth of officiating) I was hired in three NCAA-W conferences, and I now work a full NCAA-W schedule with about 15 BV HS contests in my seventh year of officiating.

Not once in my career have I moved up to my own accord. Each time I was noticed and told to move up by veteran officials. YMMV

Even Malcolm Gladwell will tell you that his book doesn't mean anybody can do anything if they practice for 10,000 hours. His book, at its root, is all about what the greatest did to separate themselves from others who would have had similar natural talents but didn't do that work.

There does seem to be something magic about the 10,000 hours, but I'm never, no matter how much time and effort I spend, going to be able to compete on the NBA floor. I'm neither tall enough nor have the build, structure, and genetics to be quick enough. 10,000 hours of training won't make me quick enough.